Lisa, clearly the bill at this point is a way for the banking execs to get theirs before its too late. I can't believe this thing has even gotten this far. Any idiot can already see we are in crisis. Did you know that we borrow ~2 billion A DAY to keep our system running? At what point does the line of credit end? -jmz On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Lisa Kachold wrote: > Except that the government doesn't have the money to meet FDIC failed > deposits. It also doesn't have any way to meet the Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac > guarantees. It's BROKEN and their "bail out" is not going to actually help > all of the companies and individuals who have more than $100,000 in one > bank. > > We have no real free market; instead partial government regulation, Federal > insurance and partial controls that have CREATED this issue. > > What they will do, is manage the mess to hide their lack of ability to meet > the FDIC and Fanny Mae/Freddy Mac historical requirements while hiding > amidst the crisis. In the end, there will be no government involvement > beyond "taxpayer" investments. > > It will undo a system in place for many years, recently broken by failure to > provide oversight in government involvement. Economists have long been > forecasting these events, starting in 2001; no legislator acted, instead our > gridlocked parties, each without a solution or agenda that in total > flowcharts to consistent success, drew salaries, often on bank boards - like > McCain. > > It's a wee bit hard to sit by and listen to the rhetoric that profit is bad > for "big executives" as if we live in a socialistic regiem. [A $500,000 > salary is still acceptable - I see?] > > The solution will reduce only the government losses, the financial fall is > of course the market righting itself. Buying and selling, and repackaging > and selling unsecured or partially secured and mostly vapor debts in the way > of real estate loans under the umbrella of Freddy Mac and Fanny Mae was just > the start, but it began in the late 1990's. > > If you didn't notice, American's continual denial that there IS A PROBLEM, > complete failure to understand the credit systems, and unwillingness to > change anything seems to be broken wide open. As I drive around the > Matrix's spell seems to have lifted. Everyone sees the huge number of > homeless beggars, storefronts empty, and worse. > > The press continues to report the full ramifications on CNN and network > news. > > The ramifications for the American dollar as unsecured loans are made, and > the government begins to play the market are also huge. > > This is far too little too late. > > Add to this the potential insurance giant liquidity changes from socialized > medicine, and it's the END of the WORLD as we know it? > > || Obnosis.com > ________________________________ > ________________________________ > Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 21:11:52 -0700 > From: eric.cope@gmail.com > To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > Subject: Re: OT: Emergency Buy Out > > I thought I answered that question. Yes. The longer we drag this out, the > harsher it will be when the house of cards falls. You can not prevent the > economic cycle. Good companies will survive. Bad ones will fail. It is > absolutely required that this cycle take place. Its how progress is enabled. > > On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 5:16 PM, Craig White wrote: > > On Sun, 2008-09-28 at 16:52 -0700, Eric Cope wrote: >> If you could point out the free market, I would appreciate it. A free >> market has two required market forces, profit AND loss. When the >> government removes the chance of loss (like with Fannie, Freddie, >> FDIC, etc), people and corporations are not only permitted, but >> encouraged to participate in foolish economic agreements. We do not >> enjoy a free market. We are enduring within a perverse bastardized >> socialist system. >> >> Oh, and by the way... the only depression we have ever suffered is due >> to government interference. >> >> And, if we have artificially overhyped our economy with tax-based >> systems, then yes, we need a recession to bring us back to reality. >> It was the housing bubble that knocked some sense into people >> regarding real estate. They would have learned their lesson if we >> didn't bail them out... >> >> Economics is not about generating warm fuzzies for everyone. Its about >> doing whats right for everyone. That does not include giving anything >> to anyone. > ---- > "Oh, and by the way... the only depression we have ever suffered is due to > government interference." > > It's a good thing you aren't resorting to simplistic blame for > historical events. > > I think it was revealed today that Hank Paulson dragged along his > previous compatriot, Lloyd C. Blankfein of Goldman Sachs to the Federal > Reserve meeting regarding the bailout of AIG insurance wherein it > becomes suspect because this is somewhat unprecedented. Paulson because > of his previous employment at Goldman Sachs knew that Goldman Sachs was > a major trading partner of AIG and that the failure of AIG would cause > substantial if not irreparable harm to Goldman Sachs. It's clear that > the conflicts of interest throughout are really, really ugly. > > But again, all of the blame, finger pointing and decrying the lack of > true free market practice merely distracts from the question that I > asked... > > If Congress elects to provide no aid other than to federally > insured/underwritings and you accept the premise that without providing > more capital to the market place and businesses continue laying off > people, investment portfolios continue to devalue... > > are you willing to accept a recession, possibly a deep recession or even > a wide scale depression so that taxpayers do not 'bail out' private > interests? > > I think that is a very key question and merely tossing blame doesn't get > anywhere near the answer...at some point, you have to stand up and be > counted. > > Craig > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > ________________________________ > Want to do more with Windows Live? 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