Re: ot: Fourth Amendment... gone forever?

> Craig White  wrote:
>         On Tue, 2008-02-12 at 21:12 -0700, Jason Hayes wrote:
>         > On Tuesday 12 February 2008 7:14:33 pm Kristian Erik
>         Hermansen wrote:
>         > >
>         > > +1. For Michale Moore, you could tell he was holding back
>         to try
>         > > being "fair and balanced". Health care in the USA is a
>         joke compared
>         > > to the UK. You don't believe it? Watch the movie and ask
>         any of your
>         > > friends who have had care in both places...

>         > 
>         > Or you can ask me. I endured the Canadian health care system
>         for over 30 
>         > years. To clear things up, it's not the panacea you appear
>         to think it is. 
>         > The US health care system -- expensive as it may be -- is
>         light years ahead 
>         > of the Canadian and British systems.

>         > 
>         > A few quick examples from my own life experience.

>         > 
>         > 1) I had to wait over 18 months to get a simple, outpatient
>         operation to fix 
>         > an inguinal hernia in late 2004. The only reason I was
>         "rushed" in at the 18 
>         > month mark was that I was to the point where I could barely
>         function any 
>         > more. If I hadn't pushed the issue, the surgeon's office
>         would have let me 
>         > sit on the waiting list for my originally scheduled date --
>         six months later.

>         > 
>         > 2) My mother waited over 2 years to get one hip replaced and
>         has waited over 
>         > two more years to get the other done (four years and still
>         waiting).

>         > 
>         > 4) My wife's step-grandfather was diagnosed with prostate
>         cancer in November 
>         > last year and was told that he will need to wait until June
>         to get in to see 
>         > the specialist to determine how they will treat his cancer.
>         Eight months of 
>         > letting the cancer grow before they will even take a first
>         look at it.

>         > 
>         > 5) My wife and I lived in Calgary, AB for five years. In
>         that time, we were 
>         > only able to get our kids into a pediatrician once, after we
>         were referred by 
>         > another doctor. Additionally, none of the doctors we could
>         find were taking 
>         > on new patients, so any time we needed health care, we went
>         to walk-ins 
>         > (urgent care) or the emergency room.

>         > 
>         > Those are the first few examples that come to mind. If I
>         needed to, I could 
>         > dig up a lot more.

>         > 
>         > Regarding your first assertion, Michael Moore doesn't have
>         the first clue what 
>         > life is like under socialized health care and you don't see
>         him traveling to 
>         > Cuba for his check ups and surgery, do you?

>         > 
>         > The simple truth is that people are dying on wait lists in
>         Canada, Great 
>         > Britain, and France. Worse, they're made to wait like that
>         after having paid 
>         > 50%+ taxes for their "free" health care.

>         > 
>         > Don't fall for it. The grass is not greener on the other
>         side of that fence.
>         ----
>         oh but it is...

>         In any of the countries you mention above, you are not subject
>         to
>         exclusions for pre-existing conditions, large deductibles,
>         medical
>         decisions made by health insurance companies and of course, of
>         all the
>         countries mention, this is the only one where people routinely
>         have to
>         declare bankruptcy because of the phenomenal costs of health
>         care, and
>         this hits both insured and uninsured people.

>         Then add to the equation the vast numbers of uninsured, the
>         percentage
>         of the nations GDP that is given to the health care industry
>         (and
>         rising) and the cost escalations for health care the last 5
>         years and
>         the projected increases in health care costs over the next 5
>         years and
>         it is clearly a system that is deeply broken.

>         For every 'horror story' that you list above, there are surely
>         10 horror
>         stories in the American health care system...

>         http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-kaiser4may04,0,335770.story?track=tothtml

>         Oh yeah, this is a great health care system we have here in
>         the US...

>         Craig

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