As the saying goes, "it's hard to soar like eagles when you're working
with buzzards" (or something to that effect). You have my sympathy.
I'd be looking for somewhere else to work if I were in your position.
Siri Amrit Kaur wrote:
> On Saturday 13 November 2004 10:47 am, Victor Odhner kindly wrote:
>
>>Hi, Siri.
>>
>> > So, "how do you solve a problem like Maria?"
>>
>>In short, if you aren't in the position to help
>>set up their computer FOR THEM, or if they are
>>not compliant enough to simply OBEY your COMMAND
>>to install ZoneAlarm and not click on email
>>attachments, you will not be able to help these
>>people. More suggestions below.
>>
>>The real problems are:
>>
>>1. People really *are* too busy. Life keeps us
>> very busy, and to get people to actually take
>> time for something that is outside their sphere
>> of concern is virtually impossible, until they
>> get bit. Hey, you see this among techies,
>> don't you? I've been working with computers
>> for 35 years, and am the local expert on lots
>> of things; but for 35% of the decisions I make,
>> I have to rely on someone else who has the
>> cookbook or specializes in some area to help me
>> make the right decision. For another example,
>> we tend to make our political decisions based
>> largely on the circle of friends (and/or web
>> sites, publications, etc) from which we gather
>> our information. People are highly social
>> animals, and DO rely on one another for
>> guidance. So you need to leverage this with
>> the "Marias" in your world: Call in the
>> professional or social standing you have built
>> with them, and simply demand that they let you
>> influence them in these areas.
>>
>>2. People do not act on what they know, but on
>> what they want. If they are so needy for "input"
>> that they will click on every attachment, or if
>> they are determined to surf pr0n sites, or if
>> they are so rigidly individualistic that they
>> will not accept guidance from those who know,
>> then they *will* be hurt. We can only sorrow
>> for them, and keep the lines open in case they
>> have a "learning experience" and become a little
>> more malleable.
>>
>>People learn from experience. They do lock their
>>house and their car, don't they? Maybe not their
>>car, because they don't believe anyone would want
>>that either, or don't believe how quickly someone
>>can drive it away without a key. Maybe not their
>>house, because they've never been broken into.
>>
>>I'm a computer dude, but when my wife's brother in
>>law visits, often bringing some pass-me-down
>>hardware for my wife's computer, he makes sure that
>>all her IE updates are installed. But *he* doesn't
>>understand why she and I both do all our browsing
>>with Mozilla. See how it goes?
>>
>>If they gripe about pop-ups, definitely sell them
>>FireFox. That was a good opportunity with my
>>daughter in law (she was *so* glad to be free of
>>the pop-ups!), and with my daughter (her kids were
>>getting to see some really nasty messages).
>>
>>Siri, people are (let me say this kindly) *stupid*.
>>I don't exempt myself from this. We all have blind
>>spots, we all choose what to pay attention to, and
>>what to simply ignore or rely on friends for. That
>>last one is where you have a shot at doing some good.
>>
>>So, pick your battles. Just try to get across the
>>simple phrase, "the Internet is a two-way street
>>and you need to lock your door". If they run
>>Windows, INSIST that they install ZoneAlarm and only
>>OK connections that they have initiated; and so on.
>>
>>We have only so much time to live our lives.
>>Learn a little philosphy from this old guy, and
>>just do your best. ;-)
>>
>>Vic
>
>
> Thanks for everybody's input. I'll try Dennis' suggestion for the Google
> search. I've tried other searches of similar nature, hoping to find something
> short and scary to knock some sense into them. I've talked to them about
> using different browsers like firefox. I get in return "What's a
> browser?" (bangs head against the wall.)
>
> I'd say let them learn the hard way, but it's impacted me. Their internet
> practices at work were so bad, their computers so infested, that my boss took
> the extreme step of taking us ALL off the internet just to protect the
> databases. He felt he couldn't secure the WinXP Home Edition desktops we have
> there, no matter how much security software he put on. Their boxes were
> infested with spyware. My computer was the only one that was totally clean
> because I used Firefox and Opera, never installed Outlook Express or Real
> Player, turned off Java, installed a hosts file, etc. but I got taken off the
> internet, too.
>
> He had me set up one old (300 MHz) computer with Slackware for all five of us
> to use for internet and mail. It's a terrible solution; it's put us back into
> the stone age. We're running KDE because they couldn't get the hang of the
> lighter window managers. Everybody is under one guest account. We don't save
> any sensitive data on it. I'm going to try giving people separate accounts to
> see if they can handle logins, but so far, I've had to log them into the
> guest account because they can't even type in a password without screwing up!
> I'm not kidding!
>
> I made the system as lean as possible but it's slow, even with unneeded
> services not installed or turned off. They blame Linux for the slowness, not
> the barely sufficient RAM. They blame Linux when Cox has DNS resolution
> problems, too. They blame ME for the Linux. They HATE Linux. They hate having
> to learn to do things differently, using different browsers, having to login
> and out, getting their email through Squirrel Mail instead of Outlook
> Express, fighting with Open Office when it won't open the Word Perfect
> documents that one client insists on sending. (My boss and I tried numerous
> times to teach that client how to send in .rtf, but she's too dumb to learn
> *sigh*.) I thought they would like Linux, but they hate it.
>
> We need a way to separate the LAN from the internet in Windows, but my boss
> doesn't know how to do that. He says it's impossible with WinXP Home Edition.
> We could try to run the Windows apps we need under Linux but I don't know how
> to set things up for that. Haven't got a clue how to use Wine or other
> emulators, or how to network Linux in a LAN. I don't know squat about
> networking. He won't pay a Linux/Windows consultant to tell us how to set
> things up sanely.
>
> I love these people like family, but I'm getting tired of them blaming ME and
> Linux for their misery. I feel I should be blaming THEM for being so
> willfully and deliberately stupid with their computers that it came to this.
>
> So, that's my rant. Thanks for listening.
>
>
>>Siri Amrit Kaur wrote:
>>
>>>How do you explain the security risks of viruses,
>>>
>>
>> > worms, spyware, etc. to
>>
>>>people who need to take security seriously, but have NO
>>>
>>
>> > technical background and don't want to believe that:
>>
>>>1. Their home computers are vulnerable.
>>>2. They have anything on their computer that anybody would want.
>>>3. Bad guys would ever crack "their" computer
>>>4. Having their computer used for Distributed Denial of Service
>>>
>>
>> > attacks can't be a big deal.
>>
>>>5. Keystroke loggers really can trace their sensitive data.
>>>6. Their computer could be used as a porn server
>>>I've tried to explain to them ... "But I don't care." Their level
>>>
>>
>> > of denial and deliberate naivete is dumbfounding!
>>
>>>So, "how do you solve a problem like Maria?"
>>
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--
-Eric 'shubes'
"There is no such thing as the People;
it is a collectivist myth.
There are only individual citizens
with individual wills
and individual purposes."
-William E. Simon (1927-2000),
Secretary of the Treasury (1974-1977)
"A Time For Truth" (1978), pg. 237
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