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On Sat, 2004-01-17 at 11:49, Chris Gehlker wrote:
> Sure, at least to the extent that YaST is actually superior to the=20
> GPLed alternatives. I already conceded that Red Hat was a better member=20
Certainly superiority is a subjective thing. If you wanted to state
that there are licenses that are more "free" than the GPL there are
several including the BSD's. However, I don't think there are many if
any that are better at preserving freedom. The GPL's main difference
above other free software licenses is that it doesn't allow you to
remove freedoms. YAST removes the freedom of being able to distribute
for profit.
> of the community than SUSE. That doesn't make SUSE the devil. Note that=20
> a non-profit distro like Debian can use YaST if they want.
No one has called SuSE the devil. Debian may be able to use YaST, but
they have a constitution that prevents them from doing so. They have
their own definition of freedom (that is similar to the FSF) and refuse
to put things in their distribution that violate that definition. Or at
least they used to.
> Sure it's important. It's just not, in my opinion, important enough to=20
> justify using emotionally loaded words like 'Freedom' to characterize=20
I thing you are too emotionally hung up on the word based on prior
grievances. You appear unable to distinguish that you can use a single
word for something, but that "severity" of that word is not universal.
For example, I could use "convicted felon". For many this is a very
emotionally charged word. However, there are degrees of felonies. For
example a "accessory after the fact" is *much* different from 1st degree
murder, but both are "felonies".
When I say that someone is violating someone's freedom in software, you
are appalled that I am some how equating this to much more severe
violations of freedom such as unlawful imprisionment or slavery. That
argument is absurd.
> one side. By granting users a right to redistribute the GPL guarantees=20
> that *in practice* nobody is going to make a pile of money reselling=20
It doesn't guarantee it, but certainly it makes it difficult.
> FOSS. SUSE just goes the extra step of denying de jure what the GPL=20
> denies de facto. And while Red Hat may forgo the use of copyright law=20
If it is so guaranteed, then why do they feel it necessary to put it in
writing?
> to try to differentiate their product, they don't hesitate to use=20
> trademark law to achieve the same ends.
I didn't even bother to bring up that as another issue why I am leary of
them.
> So I agree that the distinction should be important to people but I=20
> also think that it has been overstated here and elsewhere. It is not=20
> as big as difference as those among the GPL, the RPL and the BSD=20
> license, for example. And certainly the GPL, the RPL, the YaST license=20
> and the BSD license are a lot more like each other than any of them are=20
> like a typical EULA.
Yes. The YaST license is a GIANT step forward against something like
the Windows XP EULA. It would be foolish to suggest otherwise. It is
sufficiently onerous enough that as you state, it brings into question
SuSE's commitment to the community when measured against Red Hat and
Debian. That was if you recall the start of this dicussion. Someone
asked why there wasn't great joy that SuSE was pouring in support to
Linux. To which I stated, they aren't a champion of the community, so
there is no major reason to cheer. At least not yet. Perhaps Ximian
and company can help them change their image some. It is not like they
are so off base they can't get there.
--=20
Derek Neighbors
GNU Enterprise
http://www.gnuenterprise.org
derek@gnue.org
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