PLUG-discuss Digest, Vol 178, Issue 21
Stephen Elliott
tnflyfisher at live.com
Wed Apr 29 13:51:41 MST 2020
WebEx does work through a browser and I use in Ubuntu. I use WebEx Teams, Events and Meetings often and have tested them in Firefox.
Stephen Elliott
________________________________
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Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 12:00:01 PM
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Subject: PLUG-discuss Digest, Vol 178, Issue 21
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: zoom and teams patches (Phil Waclawski)
2. Re: zoom and teams patches (der.hans)
3. Re: zoom and teams patches (der.hans)
4. Re: zoom and teams patches (der.hans)
5. Re: zoom and teams patches (ryan at petris.net)
6. Re: zoom and teams patches (der.hans)
7. Re: zoom and teams patches (Donald Mac McCarthy)
8. Re: zoom and teams patches (Michael Butash)
9. Re: zoom and teams patches (Michael Butash)
10. Re: zoom and teams patches (Stephen Partington)
11. Re: zoom and teams patches (Michael Butash)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 15:20:42 -0700
From: Phil Waclawski <phil.waclawski at mesacc.edu>
To: Main PLUG discussion list <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
Subject: Re: zoom and teams patches
Message-ID:
<CALrwmXmNrxERw4L_NbiWpMYFvrZpiTAHOSW49U+B8XJa-Mkr_A at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Webex still does not have a Linux client (not even via web), so it is a no
go for me except on my phone, and I can't teach class with a phone. So
still using Zoom.
Phil W
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:32 AM der.hans via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
> moin moin,
>
> I'll be posting something longer and positive about Big Blue Button (
> hopefully today ), but at this point we're probably all stuck using a
> variety of tools that others get to choose for us.
>
> Zoom fixed their waiting room security hole and Microsoft is still
> learning how to safely display images.
>
> Both were fixed server side, so the holes should be gone.
>
> https://citizenlab.ca/2020/04/zooms-waiting-room-vulnerability/
>
>
> https://www.cyberark.com/threat-research-blog/beware-of-the-gif-account-takeover-vulnerability-in-microsoft-teams/
>
> Anyone know the state of webex? That's popped up for me due to the
> recurring zoom issues.
>
> ciao,
>
> der.hans
> --
> # https://www.LuftHans.com https://www.PhxLinux.org
> # It's up to the reader to make the book interesting.
> # An author has only the opportunity to make it uninteresting. - der.hans
> ---------------------------------------------------
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
--
The Maricopa Community Colleges are now operating fully remotely. We hope
you are safe and healthy during this time.
My in person and hybrid classes are all meeting at the regular times via
remote software. Lab and office hours as well. Please check Canvas for the
details and links, or email me with further questions.
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:54:48 +0000 (UTC)
From: "der.hans" <PLUGd at LuftHans.com>
To: Phil Waclawski via PLUG-discuss <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
Subject: Re: zoom and teams patches
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.11.2004282351550.407 at post>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
Am 28. Apr, 2020 schwätzte Phil Waclawski via PLUG-discuss so:
moin moin,
> Webex still does not have a Linux client (not even via web), so it is a no
It's not complaining about it at the login page. It does seem to be
requiring that I create yet another google account because there's not an
option to create a webex account and the other two services are out of the
question.
> go for me except on my phone, and I can't teach class with a phone. So
> still using Zoom.
I think we might just use phone for now. At least that's an option.
Don't think I've seen that as an option for BBB.
ciao,
der.hans
> Phil W
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:32 AM der.hans via PLUG-discuss <
> plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>
>> moin moin,
>>
>> I'll be posting something longer and positive about Big Blue Button (
>> hopefully today ), but at this point we're probably all stuck using a
>> variety of tools that others get to choose for us.
>>
>> Zoom fixed their waiting room security hole and Microsoft is still
>> learning how to safely display images.
>>
>> Both were fixed server side, so the holes should be gone.
>>
>> https://citizenlab.ca/2020/04/zooms-waiting-room-vulnerability/
>>
>>
>> https://www.cyberark.com/threat-research-blog/beware-of-the-gif-account-takeover-vulnerability-in-microsoft-teams/
>>
>> Anyone know the state of webex? That's popped up for me due to the
>> recurring zoom issues.
>>
>> ciao,
>>
>> der.hans
>> --
>> # https://www.LuftHans.com https://www.PhxLinux.org
>> # It's up to the reader to make the book interesting.
>> # An author has only the opportunity to make it uninteresting. - der.hans
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
>
>
>
--
# https://www.LuftHans.com https://www.PhxLinux.org
# "I have seen the enemy, and it is shiny." -- Benjy Feen, 22Jun2001
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 00:00:09 +0000 (UTC)
From: "der.hans" <PLUGd at LuftHans.com>
To: Phil Waclawski via PLUG-discuss <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
Subject: Re: zoom and teams patches
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.11.2004282357320.407 at post>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
Am 28. Apr, 2020 schwätzte Phil Waclawski via PLUG-discuss so:
moin moin Phil,
> Webex still does not have a Linux client (not even via web), so it is a no
> go for me except on my phone, and I can't teach class with a phone. So
> still using Zoom.
Hmm, a help page claims support for GNU/Linux.
https://help.webex.com/en-us/nki3xrq/Webex-Meetings-Suite-System-Requirements
----
Linux (Web App) (32-bit/64-bit)
Ubutuntu 14.x or later
OpenSuSE 13.x or later
Fedora 18 or later
Red Hat 6 or later
Debian 8.x or later
The following Webex services are available for Linux on the web app:
Webex Meetings
Webex Events (attendees)
Webex Training (attendees)
Known issues and limitations for Linux on the Webex Meetings web app:
In some versions of Linux, users must proactively install and activate
the “OpenH264 Video Codec provided by Cisco Systems, Inc.” plugin in order
for the video, call my computer, and content sharing features to work in
Firefox.
Content sharing does not work in Linux versions that use Wayland as
their display management system (such as Fedora 25 and later), due to an
issue with the WebRTC screen sharing API.
Sending and receiving video does not work in Fedora 28 due to an issue
with the H.264 codec.
See the Web App Supported Operating Systems and Browsers for more
information on the additional features for Linux that are available in the
Webex Meetings desktop app.
Linux (Legacy App)
Ubuntu 12.x and 14.x (Gnome) (all 32-bit)
Red Hat 5, 6 (all 32-bit)
Open SuSE 13.1, 13.2 (all 32-bit)
Fedora 19, 20 32-bit/64-bit
Notes:
Webex video and Personal Room video are only supported on the Webex
Meetings Web App.
The following Webex services are available for Linux on the legacy
app:
Webex Meetings
Webex Events
Webex Training
Remote Support
----
ciao,
der.hans
> Phil W
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:32 AM der.hans via PLUG-discuss <
> plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>
>> moin moin,
>>
>> I'll be posting something longer and positive about Big Blue Button (
>> hopefully today ), but at this point we're probably all stuck using a
>> variety of tools that others get to choose for us.
>>
>> Zoom fixed their waiting room security hole and Microsoft is still
>> learning how to safely display images.
>>
>> Both were fixed server side, so the holes should be gone.
>>
>> https://citizenlab.ca/2020/04/zooms-waiting-room-vulnerability/
>>
>>
>> https://www.cyberark.com/threat-research-blog/beware-of-the-gif-account-takeover-vulnerability-in-microsoft-teams/
>>
>> Anyone know the state of webex? That's popped up for me due to the
>> recurring zoom issues.
>>
>> ciao,
>>
>> der.hans
>> --
>> # https://www.LuftHans.com https://www.PhxLinux.org
>> # It's up to the reader to make the book interesting.
>> # An author has only the opportunity to make it uninteresting. - der.hans
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
>
>
>
--
# https://www.LuftHans.com https://www.PhxLinux.org
# "Life is pain, Highness! Anyone who says differently is selling something."
# -- Dread Pirate Roberts in The Princess Bride
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 00:35:50 +0000 (UTC)
From: "der.hans" <PLUGd at LuftHans.com>
To: Phil Waclawski via PLUG-discuss <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
Subject: Re: zoom and teams patches
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.11.2004290031470.407 at post>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
Am 28. Apr, 2020 schwätzte Phil Waclawski via PLUG-discuss so:
moin moin,
webex says my system isn't supported and points me to the page on system
requirements. I now see the issue, I'm running plain Ubuntu rather than
'Ubutuntu' so I guess I'll have to find an install iso for that :).
ciao,
der.hans
> Webex still does not have a Linux client (not even via web), so it is a no
> go for me except on my phone, and I can't teach class with a phone. So
> still using Zoom.
> Phil W
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:32 AM der.hans via PLUG-discuss <
> plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>
>> moin moin,
>>
>> I'll be posting something longer and positive about Big Blue Button (
>> hopefully today ), but at this point we're probably all stuck using a
>> variety of tools that others get to choose for us.
>>
>> Zoom fixed their waiting room security hole and Microsoft is still
>> learning how to safely display images.
>>
>> Both were fixed server side, so the holes should be gone.
>>
>> https://citizenlab.ca/2020/04/zooms-waiting-room-vulnerability/
>>
>>
>> https://www.cyberark.com/threat-research-blog/beware-of-the-gif-account-takeover-vulnerability-in-microsoft-teams/
>>
>> Anyone know the state of webex? That's popped up for me due to the
>> recurring zoom issues.
>>
>> ciao,
>>
>> der.hans
>> --
>> # https://www.LuftHans.com https://www.PhxLinux.org
>> # It's up to the reader to make the book interesting.
>> # An author has only the opportunity to make it uninteresting. - der.hans
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
>
>
>
--
# https://www.LuftHans.com https://www.PhxLinux.org
# "I have faith in debian-legal." -- Ted Gould
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 19:53:42 -0700
From: ryan at petris.net
To: Main PLUG discussion list <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
Subject: Re: zoom and teams patches
Message-ID: <f3eba0b5ca3164ddd070ee2e4e75354e at petris.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
That's not entirely true, I use Webex on Linux, including sharing my
screen, nearly every day for work. It is true that there's no native
client, though, but the workaround is to use Chrome or a Chrome-based
browser (in my case, Chromium), and Webex is able to use the built-in
screen sharing functionality of Chrome to share your screen. The only
caveat I've found is that you must use Xorg, not Wayland, as Chromium
doesn't appear to support screen capture on Wayland.
On 2020-04-28 15:20, Phil Waclawski via PLUG-discuss wrote:
> Webex still does not have a Linux client (not even via web), so it is
> a no go for me except on my phone, and I can't teach class with a
> phone. So still using Zoom.
> Phil W
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:32 AM der.hans via PLUG-discuss
> <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>
>> moin moin,
>>
>> I'll be posting something longer and positive about Big Blue Button
>> (
>> hopefully today ), but at this point we're probably all stuck using
>> a
>> variety of tools that others get to choose for us.
>>
>> Zoom fixed their waiting room security hole and Microsoft is still
>> learning how to safely display images.
>>
>> Both were fixed server side, so the holes should be gone.
>>
>> https://citizenlab.ca/2020/04/zooms-waiting-room-vulnerability/
>>
>>
> https://www.cyberark.com/threat-research-blog/beware-of-the-gif-account-takeover-vulnerability-in-microsoft-teams/
>>
>> Anyone know the state of webex? That's popped up for me due to the
>> recurring zoom issues.
>>
>> ciao,
>>
>> der.hans
>> --
>> # https://www.LuftHans.com https://www.PhxLinux.org
>> # It's up to the reader to make the book interesting.
>> # An author has only the opportunity to make it uninteresting. -
>> der.hans
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
> --
>
> The Maricopa Community Colleges are now operating fully remotely. We
> hope you are safe and healthy during this time.
> My in person and hybrid classes are all meeting at the regular times
> via remote software. Lab and office hours as well. Please check Canvas
> for the details and links, or email me with further questions.
> ---------------------------------------------------
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 05:40:09 +0000 (UTC)
From: "der.hans" <PLUGd at LuftHans.com>
To: Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
Subject: Re: zoom and teams patches
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.11.2004290536460.407 at post>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
Am 28. Apr, 2020 schwätzte Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss so:
moin moin,
> That's not entirely true, I use Webex on Linux, including sharing my screen,
Yeah, in the end it worked with Firefox. I had to allow some JavaScript,
but no completely 3rd party stuff.
I also didn't need to create an account for authentication. The webex join
meeting UI sucks pretty badly.
ciao,
der.hans
> nearly every day for work. It is true that there's no native client, though,
> but the workaround is to use Chrome or a Chrome-based browser (in my case,
> Chromium), and Webex is able to use the built-in screen sharing functionality
> of Chrome to share your screen. The only caveat I've found is that you must
> use Xorg, not Wayland, as Chromium doesn't appear to support screen capture
> on Wayland.
>
>
> On 2020-04-28 15:20, Phil Waclawski via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>> Webex still does not have a Linux client (not even via web), so it is
>> a no go for me except on my phone, and I can't teach class with a
>> phone. So still using Zoom.
>> Phil W
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:32 AM der.hans via PLUG-discuss
>> <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>
>>> moin moin,
>>>
>>> I'll be posting something longer and positive about Big Blue Button
>>> (
>>> hopefully today ), but at this point we're probably all stuck using
>>> a
>>> variety of tools that others get to choose for us.
>>>
>>> Zoom fixed their waiting room security hole and Microsoft is still
>>> learning how to safely display images.
>>>
>>> Both were fixed server side, so the holes should be gone.
>>>
>>> https://citizenlab.ca/2020/04/zooms-waiting-room-vulnerability/
>>>
>>>
>> https://www.cyberark.com/threat-research-blog/beware-of-the-gif-account-takeover-vulnerability-in-microsoft-teams/
>>>
>>> Anyone know the state of webex? That's popped up for me due to the
>>> recurring zoom issues.
>>>
>>> ciao,
>>>
>>> der.hans
>>> --
>>> # https://www.LuftHans.com https://www.PhxLinux.org
>>> # It's up to the reader to make the book interesting.
>>> # An author has only the opportunity to make it uninteresting. -
>>> der.hans
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>
>> --
>>
>> The Maricopa Community Colleges are now operating fully remotely. We
>> hope you are safe and healthy during this time.
>> My in person and hybrid classes are all meeting at the regular times
>> via remote software. Lab and office hours as well. Please check Canvas
>> for the details and links, or email me with further questions.
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> ---------------------------------------------------
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
--
# https://www.LuftHans.com https://www.PhxLinux.org
# If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples then
# you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and
# I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have
# two ideas. -- George Bernard Shaw
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:08:10 -0700
From: Donald Mac McCarthy <mac at oscontext.com>
To: Main PLUG discussion list <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>,
"der.hans via PLUG-discuss" <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
Cc: "der.hans" <PLUGd at LuftHans.com>
Subject: Re: zoom and teams patches
Message-ID: <42e8ce46-46f4-c021-5bbd-bee08d38b766 at oscontext.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Since when was Cisco known for a "good" UI?
Mac
der.hans via PLUG-discuss wrote on 4/28/20 10:40 PM:
> Am 28. Apr, 2020 schwätzte Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss so:
>
> moin moin,
>
>> That's not entirely true, I use Webex on Linux, including sharing my
>> screen,
>
> Yeah, in the end it worked with Firefox. I had to allow some JavaScript,
> but no completely 3rd party stuff.
>
> I also didn't need to create an account for authentication. The webex
> join
> meeting UI sucks pretty badly.
>
> ciao,
>
> der.hans
>
>> nearly every day for work. It is true that there's no native client,
>> though, but the workaround is to use Chrome or a Chrome-based browser
>> (in my case, Chromium), and Webex is able to use the built-in screen
>> sharing functionality of Chrome to share your screen. The only caveat
>> I've found is that you must use Xorg, not Wayland, as Chromium
>> doesn't appear to support screen capture on Wayland.
>>
>>
>> On 2020-04-28 15:20, Phil Waclawski via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>>> Webex still does not have a Linux client (not even via web), so it is
>>> a no go for me except on my phone, and I can't teach class with a
>>> phone. So still using Zoom.
>>> Phil W
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:32 AM der.hans via PLUG-discuss
>>> <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> moin moin,
>>>>
>>>> I'll be posting something longer and positive about Big Blue Button
>>>> (
>>>> hopefully today ), but at this point we're probably all stuck using
>>>> a
>>>> variety of tools that others get to choose for us.
>>>>
>>>> Zoom fixed their waiting room security hole and Microsoft is still
>>>> learning how to safely display images.
>>>>
>>>> Both were fixed server side, so the holes should be gone.
>>>>
>>>> https://citizenlab.ca/2020/04/zooms-waiting-room-vulnerability/
>>>>
>>>>
>>> https://www.cyberark.com/threat-research-blog/beware-of-the-gif-account-takeover-vulnerability-in-microsoft-teams/
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anyone know the state of webex? That's popped up for me due to the
>>>> recurring zoom issues.
>>>>
>>>> ciao,
>>>>
>>>> der.hans
>>>> --
>>>> # https://www.LuftHans.com https://www.PhxLinux.org
>>>> # It's up to the reader to make the book interesting.
>>>> # An author has only the opportunity to make it uninteresting. -
>>>> der.hans
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> The Maricopa Community Colleges are now operating fully remotely. We
>>> hope you are safe and healthy during this time.
>>> My in person and hybrid classes are all meeting at the regular times
>>> via remote software. Lab and office hours as well. Please check Canvas
>>> for the details and links, or email me with further questions.
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
--
Donald "Mac" McCarthy
Director, Field Operations
Open Source Context
+1.602.584.4445
mac at oscontext.com
https://oscontext.com
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 07:24:59 -0700
From: Michael Butash <michael at butash.net>
To: Main PLUG discussion list <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
Subject: Re: zoom and teams patches
Message-ID:
<CADWnDst1U9nD-ntaW05_-hFtTOFTU-jwr2BeY9tprx0FGoUptw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> Since when was Cisco known for a "good" UI?
Right, not in my 20-some years around Cisco. Why I don't do much Cisco
anymore.
Webex finally pulled its head from it's bung a few years back to figure out
how to do screen sharing AND remote control even on linux, and so far for
me, is the only other decent/viable conferencing suite outside zoom. I use
it with a few customers regularly. I've read WebEx uses the same kinds of
"exploiting" the os to launch itself with windows/mac, so same
shenanigans. I'd be really interested in seeing someone rip it apart for a
security audit.
Before Zoom and WebEx figured it out, I was using UberConference for years,
they were the original I found that could offer sharing, but never offered
remote control which is almost necessary in my line of work. I really
liked the service and company, but no remote control and some other quirks
(no firefox support a big one) drove me off to zoom finally.
M$ Teams sharing is wonky at best and doesn't allow remote control.
Microsoft basically throws in the service with o365, so many companies are
using it by default, and it always is painful. They even added a linux
client, but it was poop and doesn't allow for multiple orgs ala slack, or
about any other chat client known to man. Last time I tried it a few
months back, it also began crushing my system's cpu's - quality microsoft,
thanks for caring about us linux people with your half-assed software.
GotoMeeting still doesn't know what linux is or cares I think, luckily no
one seems to use them anymore.
-mb
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:08 PM Donald Mac McCarthy via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
> Since when was Cisco known for a "good" UI?
>
> Mac
>
> der.hans via PLUG-discuss wrote on 4/28/20 10:40 PM:
>
> Am 28. Apr, 2020 schwätzte Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss so:
>
> moin moin,
>
> That's not entirely true, I use Webex on Linux, including sharing my
> screen,
>
>
> Yeah, in the end it worked with Firefox. I had to allow some JavaScript,
> but no completely 3rd party stuff.
>
> I also didn't need to create an account for authentication. The webex join
> meeting UI sucks pretty badly.
>
> ciao,
>
> der.hans
>
> nearly every day for work. It is true that there's no native client,
> though, but the workaround is to use Chrome or a Chrome-based browser (in
> my case, Chromium), and Webex is able to use the built-in screen sharing
> functionality of Chrome to share your screen. The only caveat I've found is
> that you must use Xorg, not Wayland, as Chromium doesn't appear to support
> screen capture on Wayland.
>
>
> On 2020-04-28 15:20, Phil Waclawski via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>
> Webex still does not have a Linux client (not even via web), so it is
> a no go for me except on my phone, and I can't teach class with a
> phone. So still using Zoom.
> Phil W
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:32 AM der.hans via PLUG-discuss
> <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
> wrote:
>
> moin moin,
>
> I'll be posting something longer and positive about Big Blue Button
> (
> hopefully today ), but at this point we're probably all stuck using
> a
> variety of tools that others get to choose for us.
>
> Zoom fixed their waiting room security hole and Microsoft is still
> learning how to safely display images.
>
> Both were fixed server side, so the holes should be gone.
>
> https://citizenlab.ca/2020/04/zooms-waiting-room-vulnerability/
>
>
>
> https://www.cyberark.com/threat-research-blog/beware-of-the-gif-account-takeover-vulnerability-in-microsoft-teams/
>
>
> Anyone know the state of webex? That's popped up for me due to the
> recurring zoom issues.
>
> ciao,
>
> der.hans
> --
> # https://www.LuftHans.com https://www.PhxLinux.org
> # It's up to the reader to make the book interesting.
> # An author has only the opportunity to make it uninteresting. -
> der.hans
> ---------------------------------------------------
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
>
> --
>
> The Maricopa Community Colleges are now operating fully remotely. We
> hope you are safe and healthy during this time.
> My in person and hybrid classes are all meeting at the regular times
> via remote software. Lab and office hours as well. Please check Canvas
> for the details and links, or email me with further questions.
> ---------------------------------------------------
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
>
> --
> Donald "Mac" McCarthy
> Director, Field Operations
> Open Source Context
> +1.602.584.4445
> mac at oscontext.com
> https://oscontext.com
> ---------------------------------------------------
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
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------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 07:41:14 -0700
From: Michael Butash <michael at butash.net>
To: Main PLUG discussion list <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
Subject: Re: zoom and teams patches
Message-ID:
<CADWnDss-fwo2TDtW5Qa=mNnjdeeKvt-q-i1-=MnqnY6u4RhBJg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Google has been making news again yesterday/today with Google Meet, giving
free 60min conference calls to folks. Not used it yet, but probably should
try to see the capabilities.
https://www.blog.google/products/meet/bringing-google-meet-to-more-people/
-mb
On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 7:24 AM Michael Butash <michael at butash.net> wrote:
> > Since when was Cisco known for a "good" UI?
>
> Right, not in my 20-some years around Cisco. Why I don't do much Cisco
> anymore.
>
> Webex finally pulled its head from it's bung a few years back to figure
> out how to do screen sharing AND remote control even on linux, and so far
> for me, is the only other decent/viable conferencing suite outside zoom. I
> use it with a few customers regularly. I've read WebEx uses the same kinds
> of "exploiting" the os to launch itself with windows/mac, so same
> shenanigans. I'd be really interested in seeing someone rip it apart for a
> security audit.
>
> Before Zoom and WebEx figured it out, I was using UberConference for
> years, they were the original I found that could offer sharing, but never
> offered remote control which is almost necessary in my line of work. I
> really liked the service and company, but no remote control and some other
> quirks (no firefox support a big one) drove me off to zoom finally.
>
> M$ Teams sharing is wonky at best and doesn't allow remote control.
> Microsoft basically throws in the service with o365, so many companies are
> using it by default, and it always is painful. They even added a linux
> client, but it was poop and doesn't allow for multiple orgs ala slack, or
> about any other chat client known to man. Last time I tried it a few
> months back, it also began crushing my system's cpu's - quality microsoft,
> thanks for caring about us linux people with your half-assed software.
>
> GotoMeeting still doesn't know what linux is or cares I think, luckily no
> one seems to use them anymore.
>
> -mb
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:08 PM Donald Mac McCarthy via PLUG-discuss <
> plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>
>> Since when was Cisco known for a "good" UI?
>>
>> Mac
>>
>> der.hans via PLUG-discuss wrote on 4/28/20 10:40 PM:
>>
>> Am 28. Apr, 2020 schwätzte Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss so:
>>
>> moin moin,
>>
>> That's not entirely true, I use Webex on Linux, including sharing my
>> screen,
>>
>>
>> Yeah, in the end it worked with Firefox. I had to allow some JavaScript,
>> but no completely 3rd party stuff.
>>
>> I also didn't need to create an account for authentication. The webex
>> join
>> meeting UI sucks pretty badly.
>>
>> ciao,
>>
>> der.hans
>>
>> nearly every day for work. It is true that there's no native client,
>> though, but the workaround is to use Chrome or a Chrome-based browser (in
>> my case, Chromium), and Webex is able to use the built-in screen sharing
>> functionality of Chrome to share your screen. The only caveat I've found is
>> that you must use Xorg, not Wayland, as Chromium doesn't appear to support
>> screen capture on Wayland.
>>
>>
>> On 2020-04-28 15:20, Phil Waclawski via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>>
>> Webex still does not have a Linux client (not even via web), so it is
>> a no go for me except on my phone, and I can't teach class with a
>> phone. So still using Zoom.
>> Phil W
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:32 AM der.hans via PLUG-discuss
>> <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> moin moin,
>>
>> I'll be posting something longer and positive about Big Blue Button
>> (
>> hopefully today ), but at this point we're probably all stuck using
>> a
>> variety of tools that others get to choose for us.
>>
>> Zoom fixed their waiting room security hole and Microsoft is still
>> learning how to safely display images.
>>
>> Both were fixed server side, so the holes should be gone.
>>
>> https://citizenlab.ca/2020/04/zooms-waiting-room-vulnerability/
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.cyberark.com/threat-research-blog/beware-of-the-gif-account-takeover-vulnerability-in-microsoft-teams/
>>
>>
>> Anyone know the state of webex? That's popped up for me due to the
>> recurring zoom issues.
>>
>> ciao,
>>
>> der.hans
>> --
>> # https://www.LuftHans.com https://www.PhxLinux.org
>> # It's up to the reader to make the book interesting.
>> # An author has only the opportunity to make it uninteresting. -
>> der.hans
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> The Maricopa Community Colleges are now operating fully remotely. We
>> hope you are safe and healthy during this time.
>> My in person and hybrid classes are all meeting at the regular times
>> via remote software. Lab and office hours as well. Please check Canvas
>> for the details and links, or email me with further questions.
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>
>>
>> --
>> Donald "Mac" McCarthy
>> Director, Field Operations
>> Open Source Context
>> +1.602.584.4445
>> mac at oscontext.com
>> https://oscontext.com
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
>
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------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 07:47:01 -0700
From: Stephen Partington <cryptworks at gmail.com>
To: Main PLUG discussion list <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
Subject: Re: zoom and teams patches
Message-ID:
<CACS_G9wOETBTaZ94vCv4F=PGzO2GNyBEhyiy1ffTugAcR3CBhg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
We have been using the crap out of it at work, and it does a good job,
simple with minimal extras, but sometimes that's what you need.
On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 7:41 AM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
> Google has been making news again yesterday/today with Google Meet, giving
> free 60min conference calls to folks. Not used it yet, but probably should
> try to see the capabilities.
>
> https://www.blog.google/products/meet/bringing-google-meet-to-more-people/
>
> -mb
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 7:24 AM Michael Butash <michael at butash.net> wrote:
>
>> > Since when was Cisco known for a "good" UI?
>>
>> Right, not in my 20-some years around Cisco. Why I don't do much Cisco
>> anymore.
>>
>> Webex finally pulled its head from it's bung a few years back to figure
>> out how to do screen sharing AND remote control even on linux, and so far
>> for me, is the only other decent/viable conferencing suite outside zoom. I
>> use it with a few customers regularly. I've read WebEx uses the same kinds
>> of "exploiting" the os to launch itself with windows/mac, so same
>> shenanigans. I'd be really interested in seeing someone rip it apart for a
>> security audit.
>>
>> Before Zoom and WebEx figured it out, I was using UberConference for
>> years, they were the original I found that could offer sharing, but never
>> offered remote control which is almost necessary in my line of work. I
>> really liked the service and company, but no remote control and some other
>> quirks (no firefox support a big one) drove me off to zoom finally.
>>
>> M$ Teams sharing is wonky at best and doesn't allow remote control.
>> Microsoft basically throws in the service with o365, so many companies are
>> using it by default, and it always is painful. They even added a linux
>> client, but it was poop and doesn't allow for multiple orgs ala slack, or
>> about any other chat client known to man. Last time I tried it a few
>> months back, it also began crushing my system's cpu's - quality microsoft,
>> thanks for caring about us linux people with your half-assed software.
>>
>> GotoMeeting still doesn't know what linux is or cares I think, luckily no
>> one seems to use them anymore.
>>
>> -mb
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:08 PM Donald Mac McCarthy via PLUG-discuss <
>> plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Since when was Cisco known for a "good" UI?
>>>
>>> Mac
>>>
>>> der.hans via PLUG-discuss wrote on 4/28/20 10:40 PM:
>>>
>>> Am 28. Apr, 2020 schwätzte Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss so:
>>>
>>> moin moin,
>>>
>>> That's not entirely true, I use Webex on Linux, including sharing my
>>> screen,
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, in the end it worked with Firefox. I had to allow some JavaScript,
>>> but no completely 3rd party stuff.
>>>
>>> I also didn't need to create an account for authentication. The webex
>>> join
>>> meeting UI sucks pretty badly.
>>>
>>> ciao,
>>>
>>> der.hans
>>>
>>> nearly every day for work. It is true that there's no native client,
>>> though, but the workaround is to use Chrome or a Chrome-based browser (in
>>> my case, Chromium), and Webex is able to use the built-in screen sharing
>>> functionality of Chrome to share your screen. The only caveat I've found is
>>> that you must use Xorg, not Wayland, as Chromium doesn't appear to support
>>> screen capture on Wayland.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2020-04-28 15:20, Phil Waclawski via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>>>
>>> Webex still does not have a Linux client (not even via web), so it is
>>> a no go for me except on my phone, and I can't teach class with a
>>> phone. So still using Zoom.
>>> Phil W
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:32 AM der.hans via PLUG-discuss
>>> <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> moin moin,
>>>
>>> I'll be posting something longer and positive about Big Blue Button
>>> (
>>> hopefully today ), but at this point we're probably all stuck using
>>> a
>>> variety of tools that others get to choose for us.
>>>
>>> Zoom fixed their waiting room security hole and Microsoft is still
>>> learning how to safely display images.
>>>
>>> Both were fixed server side, so the holes should be gone.
>>>
>>> https://citizenlab.ca/2020/04/zooms-waiting-room-vulnerability/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.cyberark.com/threat-research-blog/beware-of-the-gif-account-takeover-vulnerability-in-microsoft-teams/
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyone know the state of webex? That's popped up for me due to the
>>> recurring zoom issues.
>>>
>>> ciao,
>>>
>>> der.hans
>>> --
>>> # https://www.LuftHans.com https://www.PhxLinux.org
>>> # It's up to the reader to make the book interesting.
>>> # An author has only the opportunity to make it uninteresting. -
>>> der.hans
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> The Maricopa Community Colleges are now operating fully remotely. We
>>> hope you are safe and healthy during this time.
>>> My in person and hybrid classes are all meeting at the regular times
>>> via remote software. Lab and office hours as well. Please check Canvas
>>> for the details and links, or email me with further questions.
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Donald "Mac" McCarthy
>>> Director, Field Operations
>>> Open Source Context
>>> +1.602.584.4445
>>> mac at oscontext.com
>>> https://oscontext.com
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
--
A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
Stephen
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------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 08:47:06 -0700
From: Michael Butash <michael at butash.net>
To: Main PLUG discussion list <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
Subject: Re: zoom and teams patches
Message-ID:
<CADWnDsu8ZpPcidt=_MH9XQThFWn9n2dp14CxuQJj=VSTwvO1xg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
How's the video sharing and remote control capabilities? That is always
the issue with linux involved.
Teams, UberConf both don't allow remote control, so they're only
half-functional imho. Even sharing alone, both were also bad about letting
me share one of my 3 displays at a time, only allowing the full 3x display,
or a single application at a time. Zoom and WebEx allow me to show each
display individually. It's like a feature they don't know exists, but is
damn relevant when you have 2-3 displays going at a time.
I use hangouts still for my sms as my main number *is* gvoice still, but
hangouts, duo, etc have never been too usable, or at least everyone else
just went back to the facebook/instagram/whatsapp cartel, or use their
work's service ala zoom/webex/etc. I don't care about or use video (no one
wants to see me), I just need desktop sharing and remote control to get
their stuff working.
-mb
On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 7:47 AM Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
> We have been using the crap out of it at work, and it does a good job,
> simple with minimal extras, but sometimes that's what you need.
>
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 7:41 AM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss <
> plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>
>> Google has been making news again yesterday/today with Google Meet,
>> giving free 60min conference calls to folks. Not used it yet, but probably
>> should try to see the capabilities.
>>
>> https://www.blog.google/products/meet/bringing-google-meet-to-more-people/
>>
>> -mb
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 7:24 AM Michael Butash <michael at butash.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> > Since when was Cisco known for a "good" UI?
>>>
>>> Right, not in my 20-some years around Cisco. Why I don't do much Cisco
>>> anymore.
>>>
>>> Webex finally pulled its head from it's bung a few years back to figure
>>> out how to do screen sharing AND remote control even on linux, and so far
>>> for me, is the only other decent/viable conferencing suite outside zoom. I
>>> use it with a few customers regularly. I've read WebEx uses the same kinds
>>> of "exploiting" the os to launch itself with windows/mac, so same
>>> shenanigans. I'd be really interested in seeing someone rip it apart for a
>>> security audit.
>>>
>>> Before Zoom and WebEx figured it out, I was using UberConference for
>>> years, they were the original I found that could offer sharing, but never
>>> offered remote control which is almost necessary in my line of work. I
>>> really liked the service and company, but no remote control and some other
>>> quirks (no firefox support a big one) drove me off to zoom finally.
>>>
>>> M$ Teams sharing is wonky at best and doesn't allow remote control.
>>> Microsoft basically throws in the service with o365, so many companies are
>>> using it by default, and it always is painful. They even added a linux
>>> client, but it was poop and doesn't allow for multiple orgs ala slack, or
>>> about any other chat client known to man. Last time I tried it a few
>>> months back, it also began crushing my system's cpu's - quality microsoft,
>>> thanks for caring about us linux people with your half-assed software.
>>>
>>> GotoMeeting still doesn't know what linux is or cares I think, luckily
>>> no one seems to use them anymore.
>>>
>>> -mb
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:08 PM Donald Mac McCarthy via PLUG-discuss <
>>> plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Since when was Cisco known for a "good" UI?
>>>>
>>>> Mac
>>>>
>>>> der.hans via PLUG-discuss wrote on 4/28/20 10:40 PM:
>>>>
>>>> Am 28. Apr, 2020 schwätzte Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss so:
>>>>
>>>> moin moin,
>>>>
>>>> That's not entirely true, I use Webex on Linux, including sharing my
>>>> screen,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, in the end it worked with Firefox. I had to allow some
>>>> JavaScript,
>>>> but no completely 3rd party stuff.
>>>>
>>>> I also didn't need to create an account for authentication. The webex
>>>> join
>>>> meeting UI sucks pretty badly.
>>>>
>>>> ciao,
>>>>
>>>> der.hans
>>>>
>>>> nearly every day for work. It is true that there's no native client,
>>>> though, but the workaround is to use Chrome or a Chrome-based browser (in
>>>> my case, Chromium), and Webex is able to use the built-in screen sharing
>>>> functionality of Chrome to share your screen. The only caveat I've found is
>>>> that you must use Xorg, not Wayland, as Chromium doesn't appear to support
>>>> screen capture on Wayland.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2020-04-28 15:20, Phil Waclawski via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Webex still does not have a Linux client (not even via web), so it is
>>>> a no go for me except on my phone, and I can't teach class with a
>>>> phone. So still using Zoom.
>>>> Phil W
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:32 AM der.hans via PLUG-discuss
>>>> <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> moin moin,
>>>>
>>>> I'll be posting something longer and positive about Big Blue Button
>>>> (
>>>> hopefully today ), but at this point we're probably all stuck using
>>>> a
>>>> variety of tools that others get to choose for us.
>>>>
>>>> Zoom fixed their waiting room security hole and Microsoft is still
>>>> learning how to safely display images.
>>>>
>>>> Both were fixed server side, so the holes should be gone.
>>>>
>>>> https://citizenlab.ca/2020/04/zooms-waiting-room-vulnerability/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.cyberark.com/threat-research-blog/beware-of-the-gif-account-takeover-vulnerability-in-microsoft-teams/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anyone know the state of webex? That's popped up for me due to the
>>>> recurring zoom issues.
>>>>
>>>> ciao,
>>>>
>>>> der.hans
>>>> --
>>>> # https://www.LuftHans.com https://www.PhxLinux.org
>>>> # It's up to the reader to make the book interesting.
>>>> # An author has only the opportunity to make it uninteresting. -
>>>> der.hans
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> The Maricopa Community Colleges are now operating fully remotely. We
>>>> hope you are safe and healthy during this time.
>>>> My in person and hybrid classes are all meeting at the regular times
>>>> via remote software. Lab and office hours as well. Please check Canvas
>>>> for the details and links, or email me with further questions.
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Donald "Mac" McCarthy
>>>> Director, Field Operations
>>>> Open Source Context
>>>> +1.602.584.4445
>>>> mac at oscontext.com
>>>> https://oscontext.com
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
>
>
> --
> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
>
> Stephen
>
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