****Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX

Mon Aug 10 13:01:49 MST 2009

gee, where do I sign up?

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Michael Butash <michael at butash.net> wrote:

> I just dealt with my dad dying and going through the VA Medical system
> as a Veteran - all I can say is atrocious.  Myself and family literally
> saw them KILL 2 other people around him at the VA accidentally in the
> span of 3 weeks there, and being government they have no accountability
> for their actions.  My father was was misdiagnosed for 2 years having
> kidney problems, and ultimately was prostate cancer, but trying to treat
> his kidneys managed to kill both of them dead.  By the time someone
> competent (in ER) found out the real deal, he was already stage
> 4/terminal, died less than 2 months later.
>
> His doctor was his same doctor for the past 30 years, and all he ever
> wanted to do was pump pain meds into him, never actually *fixing*
> anything.  The doctor was simply complacent and overall incompetent,
> which is scary because customer advocacy quoted him as "one of their
> best doctors".  Mostly we saw half-assed doctors that we had to lead
> ourselves to certain conclusions, resident medical students that
> couldn't tell a catheter from a lollypop, and overall the system
> generally required us as family to constantly escalating within
> management to do ANYTHING to help him.
>
> ... and this is what we want to do with health care in general?  No
> thanks, I'd rather just slit my wrists now.
>
> -mb
>
>
> On Mon, 2009-08-10 at 12:13 -0700, Taylor, Kaia wrote:
> > As an ex-Canadian, I can give you several specific personal examples of
> why moving towards the Canadian more socialist health care model is NOT
> desirable. (Eg I got tainted blood transfusions at the very same time that 2
> hours drive away in New York state, the blood was being screened!)
> >
> > As someone who knows a US vet, I can give you a specific example of why
> you should NOT TRUST the government to mess any more with your health care.
>  (eg his foot became infected with a diabetes-related issue, and he had to
> fight them to keep them from cutting it off!!!)
> >
> >
> >
> > Kaia
> >
> >
> > > > I agree our health care system is not as good as it
> > > could be.  I worked for an HMO 12 years ago and saw it first hand.
> > > >
> > > > We need freedom not restriction.  We need to be
> > > free of the current model of health care.  I feel the model is
> > > alternative health care backed by a indemnity health insurance plan.
> > > A plan that lets you go to the doctor and pay them directly.  An
> > > insurance plan that makes you responsible for 20% of your charges.
> >
> > ...
> >
> > > backs and have government fund health care and let businesses stop
> > > paying the obscene amounts for health care. Taking the insurance
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kaia Taylor
> >
> > DevSA  group  --  tis-dco-devsa - jumpword devsa
> > http://dco-sps.schwab.com/sites/devsa/welcome
> > desk 602-977-5157
> > pager 6025785439 at messaging.sprintpcs.com or white pages
> > All e-mail sent to or from this address will be received by the Charles
> Schwab corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival and review by
> someone other than the recipient.
> >
> > --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Craig White <craigwhite at azapple.com> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Craig White <craigwhite at azapple.com>
> > > Subject: Re: ****Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX
> > > To: "Main PLUG discussion list"
> > > <plug-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> > > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 6:21 PM
> > > On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 17:33 -0700,
> > > keith smith wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So pumping trillions of dollars into special interest
> > > projects is how we save the economy.
> > > >
> > > > Saving GM was about the democrat party buying
> > > votes.  Look who owns GM now.  This is I did you a favor now you owe
> > > me a favor type of politics.
> > > >
> > > > Not to mention this is more than likely
> > > unconstitutional.  Have you read the constitution lately?  The federal
> > > government is allotted very little especially when you read the 10th
> > > Amendment.
> > > >
> > > > I wonder if I get my credit card out and run it up to
> > > the limit if I will end up better off?
> > > >
> > > > The free market has not failed.  The government
> > > has failed in trying to manage it and our money supply ECT.
> > > >
> > > > Lets look at one simple sector of our economy.
> > > The housing market.  The housing market is where the down turn in our
> > > economy started.  And it all was mostly in the Phoenix area.
> > > >
> > > > Did you know the housing market is in a state of
> > > recovery in Phoenix.  How would I know about this.  I am trying to buy
> > > a house.  While houses are at 30% - 50% lower in price now than 2
> > > years ago, houses are being bid on and competition has returned.  The
> > > government has had little to do with the recovery in the Phoenix
> > > housing market.  It has been through private investment.
> > > >
> > > > One thing that has been neglected is that markets
> > > adjust.  It is natural.  When the government gets involved the
> > > problems are exasperated and I believe will ultimately be made worse.
> > > >
> > > > Hyper inflation is projected to be in our
> > > future.
> > > >
> > > > When I make statements about government needing to be
> > > pruned to the tune of 85% all I have to do is look at the Arizona
> > > government that has grown 60% in the past 5 years.  60% in 5 years.
> > > >
> > > > What is our state government doing today that we now
> > > know that we were deprived of before 2004 ?
> > > >
> > > > It has been said that Bush spent more during his
> > > tenure than all the presidents before him combined. Obama is going to
> > > make what Bush spent look like pocket change.
> > > >
> > > > This alone is an indicator that government need to be
> > > timed back substantially.
> > > >
> > > > Sales tax in California is now 9.75%.  Almost 10%
> > > of everything bought in California is tax at one tenth.  That is
> > > outrageous.  And they are still having budget problems.
> > > >
> > > > Talking about budgets, when we cannot balance our
> > > budget government spending is out of control.
> > > >
> > > > I believe that reducing taxes and the size and scope
> > > of government will spur economic growth.
> > > >
> > > > Let the people vote with their dollars.  Let them
> > > own and carry guns, as long as they have proven to be responsible, let
> > > them eat cheese burgers if the choose, let them chose their doctor and
> > > their insurance plan.
> > > >
> > > > I agree our health care system is not as good as it
> > > could be.  I worked for an HMO 12 years ago and saw it first hand.
> > > >
> > > > We need freedom not restriction.  We need to be
> > > free of the current model of health care.  I feel the model is
> > > alternative health care backed by a indemnity health insurance plan.
> > > A plan that lets you go to the doctor and pay them directly.  An
> > > insurance plan that makes you responsible for 20% of your charges.
> > > >
> > > > Lets un-handcuff our medical professionals so they can
> > > do what they do best.
> > > >
> > > > Lets un-handcuff our businesses.  You are self
> > > employed.  How do you feel every quarter when you send in your taxes?
> > > I feel cheated.
> > > >
> > > > I think freedom is the answer.  So did our
> > > Founding Fathers.
> > > ----
> > > you are all over the map.
> > >
> > > The National Debt went from less than 2 trillion to over 10 trillion
> > > under Bush.
> > >
> > > There's no suitable prediction for what the net effects of Obama's
> > > efforts will yield. The destruction of the world economy and a
> > > depression perhaps larger than that experienced in the 1930's was
> > > probably if the government had not stepped in and propped up some of
> > > these companies. If you have an argument to make about that, by all
> > > means make one. The fact is we printed money to fight an expensive war
> > > in Iraq that we couldn't afford and pumped up the economy on a false
> > > housing bubble that burst because there was no oversight over the
> > > lenders and the bundling of the loans. I personally lay this at Bush's
> > > feet.
> > >
> > > Chicago is 10% sales tax
> > > NY, NY is 9+% sales tax
> > > by the time our own state government gets through, we will be above 9%
> > >
> > > The freedom of which you speak is a platitude. It has no basis to the
> > > reality of our current economic conditions, all caused by lack of
> > > government oversight into lending and the bundling of the securities
> > > bundles created with these terrible lending practices. Free market is
> > > the problem not the solution.
> > >
> > > If you want to spur economic growth, take the monkey off businesses
> > > backs and have government fund health care and let businesses stop
> > > paying the obscene amounts for health care. Taking the insurance
> > > companies out of the equation saves at least $400B annually. Then
> > > businesses can compete. Small businesses can no longer afford to
> > > purchase health care for their employees. It has become obscenely
> > > expensive.
> > >
> > > Craig
> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> > >
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-- 
Eric Cope
http://cope-et-al.com
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