OT: Hands Off Google!

Vaughn Treude vltreude at deru.com
Thu Feb 9 07:27:03 MST 2006


On Thu, 2006-02-09 at 03:39, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>         
>         Still essentially the same non-.cn results for US search at
>         Google.com.
> 
> 
> thats wierd!  when I click the Tiananmen in .cn I get 'super happy
> fun' pictures, when I click on .com I get tanks with students, etc.
> 
> 
>         Wonder what happens if you make an English search of Google.cn
>         from within
>         .cn?
>         
>         If Google and m$ are truly notifying people when results have
>         been left
>         out due to government restrictions that's already pushing the
>         envelope to
>         reduce censorship. Do Google or m$ notify us if searches are
>         censored in 
>         the .us? Are there pages that don't get indexed by Google due
>         to content?
> 
> 
> I know of at least one site http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com that
> is not indexed in Google news because it has been classed as
> 'extremist'.  take a look at the content, Im not sure who considers
> this site to be extreme. 
> 

I searched "little green footballs" on Google News and did turn up a
number of articles that referenced the site, though none referenced the
blog directly.  I suppose that the whole point of a news search is to
filter out what you don't consider news - though LGF is definitely a
popular political site, so I'd say filtering it out is a mistake at best
and evidence of bias at worst.

OTOH, I do agree LGF _is_ extreme in the sense that it's generally
anti-Muslim, which doesn't bother me, but will certainly bother a lot of
other people. :-)  What I find distasteful about LGF is the amount of
anti-Arab racist invective you see there.  I certainly would not ban
that, though politically correct countries like the UK would, so perhaps
that's a reason for the omission.  BTW, I'm somewhat flattered that the
folks at LGF hate anti-war libertarians (such as myself) so much that
they call us "idiotarians."  It's a nice change after being marginalized
and ignored.  :-)

> 
>         I can't read the dominoes and things at the bottom of the .cn
>         page, so no 
>         idea if those are warnings of censorship.
>         
>         > do no evil... well maybe just a little evil. no one will
>         notice.
>         
>         Turning info over to the .us gov't without fighting the
>         illegal request is
>         evil. Turning over personal info the the .cn gov't or the RIAA
>         or MPAA 
>         without fighting it is evil.
> 
> 
>   These problems are surely the beginning of much bigger ones in the
> future.  One can imagine the number of ways that a search company
> could control a group or society through an engine that users assume
> is impartial and objective.  I would think that eventually there will
> be government regulations on search engines, in addition to new
> regulations introduced at the IP transport level as well.  This of
> course would require a much higher level of formalization in the
> information and linguistic sciences.  There is a growing contingency
> of tech savvy activists who are vehemently fighting this encroachment
> into thier digital communication infrastructure.  http://www.eff.org
> .  There is Lessig of course, and a few other important lawyers and
> technology people.  I had mentioned on the Azipa list more than a year
> ago the problems concerning municipal wireless and how hidden cost
> structures will effect their success.  Verizon has since 'put on a
> happy face' and are now ostensibly more positive about the prospects(
> and sales value ) of a 'neutral network'.  It seems more like bait
> than an honest sales bid. 
> 
>   In general most people do not understand to what extent this
> indexing of content can be used.  Natural Language Processing has made
> some serious strides in recent years.  It cetainly touches on a lot of
> hot topics such as privacy, etc. 
> 
> 
>         If they lose the fight they still have to comply with the law.
>         I'd like to 
>         think one would choose to just not do business in a country
>         like that, but
>         I doubt Google, m$ or Yahoo are going to stop doing business
>         in the .us...
>         
>         As to Joshua's point below. No, I don't just jump up against
>         something 
>         because m$ is doing it. I try to only criticize the evil
>         things m$
>         does. Pretty easy considering how large that list is...
>         
>         BTW, is m$ still skewing search results to censor critics and
>         abnormally
>         promote its own pages? 
>         
>         The Tiananmen queries below end up both being handled by .com
>         servers for
>         me and have the same results.
>         
>         ciao,
>         
>         der.hans
>         
>         
>         > On 2/6/06, Joshua Zeidner <jjzeidner at gmail.com> wrote:
>         >>
>         >> This is too good to hold back.
>         >>
>         >> Tiananmen image search in
>         China<http://images.google.cn/images?q=tiananmen>
>         >> Tiananmen image search in the rest of the world
>         >> <http://images.google.com/images?q=tiananmen>
>         >>
>         >> On 2/2/06, Randy Melder < randymelder at gmail.com> wrote:
>         >>>
>         >>> What's really sad is that if it were Microsoft agreeing to
>         censorship,
>         >>> you'd be all over them... for some reason, Google gets a
>         pass? Why? 
>         >>>
>         >>
>         >
>         
>         --
>         #  https://www.LuftHans.com/        http://www.CiscoLearning.org/
>         #  Join the League of Professional System Administrators!
>         https://LOPSA.org/
>         #  Science is magic explained. - der.hans
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