Mensan seeks work

[Mike Butash]

	I would debate that a certification proves someone is_not_out and out
incompetent at any age.  I've found often it's easy for the average idiot
with a decent memory to pass most basic tests.  Perhaps you should visit
some of the local future IT monkey bootcamps locally like Techskills and
Computer Learning Center and watch people haplessly staring at an animation
on the art of how to insert a DIMM into the slot to get their A+
certification, jotting notes as they go.  These are what will be coming to
you for a job in the near future.

	Certifications sadly enough are what it will take to get your average
headhunter to submit you for a job, but they mean little to nothing to me
when I'm interviewing someone for a job.  I've simply had the displeasure
too many times of having to clean up too many messes left by certified
monkeys hired by people that don't understand what they want to begin with.
The people I would consider to be the best engineers/admins/whatever rarely
have certification beyond the token CCNA, MCP, or whatever.  I'm not saying
that the certs are utterly worthless, but one thing I've noticed in Arizona
is the often the utter reliance on them as a proving factor of anyone's
worth.

	Most of my experience was spent in frying pan dot.com's tryin to keep them
alive with little thought to certs at the time.  It bit me in the ass
returning to Arizona.  I got the token phat CCNA and people started talking
to me, but still nothing decent as I was honest about my experiences.  It
took a certain amount of embellishment (as I see it) to get people to talk
to me about much of anything considering a relatively short time in the
field.  Would I call myself an expert in certain fields (well, any field)?
No, and most people with any humility wouldn't either, but that is what it
takes anymore.  What I don't know, I'm certain I can learn, but that isn't
good enough anymore, and admitting what you don't know is suicide.  It
sometimes comes down to lying (hell, some recruiters will even coach you to
do so...), but when it comes down to it, you just have to be able to back it
up.  If you can't, than you should know better.

	I respect the different points of view on the topic, and have seen them
first hand from just about any angle.  Times have changed, as have required
tactics for keeping alive.  That area of gray between white and black gets
bigger every day...  Survival of the fittest, do what you must.

-mbutash

-----Original Message-----
From: plug-discuss-admin@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
[mailto:plug-discuss-admin@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us]On Behalf Of Trent
Shipley
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 10:10 PM
To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
Subject: Re: Mensan seeks work


Dr. Ghastly wrote
>
> Also, where I work, they FORCE you to get certification. They make you get
> certified in EVERYTHING. At least they pay for it.
>

Why on earth would they want you to certify *after* the hire.  The entire
point of a cert is to provide some gurantee of minimal competence.  You
don't
go through a cert process to become competent.  You don't even learn that
much from it.

A cert makes it unlikely the certification holder is out-and-out
incompetent.
 If a certification were sufficient to demonstrate competence and ability we
wouldn't make lawyers and doctors go to school and do internships.  They'd
just have to pass their board exams.
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