Open Sourcing Automotive Diagnostics

Thu Feb 13 17:52:03 MST 2025

 forgot to include this if anyone interestedhttps://www.linklayer.com/

    On Thursday, February 13, 2025 at 01:39:11 PM MST, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:  

 On 2025-02-13 08:00, Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss wrote:
> I don't know about getting rid of *all* emissions regulations, but at
> least those that cause undue stress on the engines and extra
> unnecessary cost would be great. For instance, catalytic converters
> generally aren't a problem; they're just there in the exhaust and
> actually help to reduce the noise; it's only when they get clogged
> that's a problem. However, other systems like the EGR system gum up
> the intakes and cause problems over time. Additionally, I drive a
> diesel and the whole SCR system absurd both in complexity and cost to
> save a minuscule amount of emissions.

I a degree I disagree.  I like things simple stupid (KISS).

> 
> I've been following Rossmann for a long time and he has a lot of good
> takes on stuff. I don't know about forcing manufacturers to make parts
> available, however the manufacturer shouldn't be able to enter into
> agreements to make parts unavailable. For instance Apple will go to
> manufacturers to make slight generally unnecessary changes to their
> chips and then have them sign an agreement saying that they'll only
> sell said chips to Apple, so then you're unable to procure replacement
> parts from outside sources like DigiKey.
> 

If manufactures fail to make parts available go to a different supplier 
or buy from the alternate supply chain.

> Then there's the digital lockout of systems requiring some kind of
> programmer to get replacement parts to talk to eachother, which Apple
> is guilty of and I believe John Deere does the same. In that case, I'd
> say that yeah there should be some way for a regular consumer to at
> least override/bypass that so that they can get their equipment to
> work on their own without the manufacturer being involved.
> 

Good reason not to buy Apple....

I did one search on my Kubuntu desktop and my Android phone showed me 
this article.

https://hoodline.com/2025/02/arizona-attorney-general-sues-john-deere-alleging-unlawful-repair-monopoly-in-support-of-farmers/

Creepy....

Looks like John Deere is going down.

> There's another Youtuber similar to Rossmann named Dave Jones, who
> runs the EEVBlog YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@EEVblog
> 

Thanks I'll check him out.  Ok he is above my head.

> I think one of his sayings is something like "you don't own it until
> you've voided the warranty".
> 
> On that note, if y'all are looking for modular/repairable laptops,
> I've been buying laptops from Framework since they came into existence
> something like 5 years ago now. They've been pretty good. They're
> about to release some new stuff on the 25th. https://frame.work/
> 
> So far they have a 13 and 16 inch chassis with various board options.
> The 13 inch has had several generations of intel, the 11th, 12th,
> 13th, and the more recent 1X5H chips (whatever "generation" those are
> now), as well as an AMD 7X40 version. The 16 inch has only had a 7X40
> mainboard version but it's only a year old; I'm hoping for an upgraded
> mainboard in the announcement in a couple weeks.
> 
> On Thu, Feb 13, 2025, at 7:37 AM, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss wrote:
> 
>> I was a Chevy man during my youth.  I found Chevy's where easy to
>> work
>> 
>> on and I generally just liked their cars.
>> 
>> In AZ emissions is required for all cars 67 and newer.  Might be 68.
>> I
>> 
>> understand that the Trump Administration might be doing away with
>> 
>> emissions requirements. I sure hope so. The oil embargo and
>> emissions
>> 
>> killed the muscle car era.
>> 
>> Sometime ago I ran into this guy :
>> 
>> https://www.youtube.com/@rossmanngroup/videos
>> 
>> Are you aware of him?
>> 
>> I think if you buy something you should have the right to repair it.
>> 
>> 
>> That includes access to reasonably priced parts and even having the
>> 
>> manuals online.
>> 
>> John Deere has found itself on the wrong side of the right to repair
>> 
>> 
>> issue and look what it is costing them.
>> 
>> I support your effort!!!  It is the American way to stand up for
>> what is
>> 
>> right, and if that includes Linux, I am extremely excited.
>> 
>> Keith
>> 
>> On 2025-02-12 21:12, Pablo Camacho via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>> 
>>> I agree with the points that you made, Keith. Indeed, very true,
>> 
>>> electronics will not last as long as the car, yet the use of the
>> car
>> 
>>> depends on them.
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>> I like less electronics in my car as well which is why I tried to
>> 
>>> maintain my 2001 Hyundai Accent for as long as I could.
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>> My dream car would be one that is modular, easy to repair, and has
>> 
>>> easy access to critical parts in the engine bay that can be
>> replaced.
>> 
>>> The car version of a Framework laptop.
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 7:02 PM Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss
>> 
>>> <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>>> I might step on some toes so forgive me up front.
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> You said "I am very interested in using a Linux based computers
>> and
>> 
>>>> Open
>> 
>>>> Source computer systems to diagnose and maintain automobiles..."
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> I'm an old guy. From around 1972 to around 1984 I was a muscle
>> car
>> 
>>>> guy.
>> 
>>>> No electronics in those cars.  I like it that way.
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> I hate that cars have electrons.  I'm ok with an am/fm radio,
>> 
>>>> electric
>> 
>>>> windows (to a point),  anything else is too much for me.
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> You buy a car today and it's electronics are outdated in 5 years.
>> 
>>>> The
>> 
>>>> car can go 30 years/300k miles. But the electronics cannot keep
>> up.
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> Ok so what you are thinking of doing sounds exciting, especially
>> if
>> 
>>>> you
>> 
>>>> can replace the manufacture's electronics with some Linux based
>> 
>>>> homegrown system.
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> Right to Repair is a big deal and you might be on the leading
>> edge
>> 
>>>> of
>> 
>>>> something big...
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> Keith
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> On 2025-02-12 18:13, greg zegan via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>> 
>>>>> I have been wanting to ask about this subject as well because I
>> am
>> 
>>>>> seriously considering this subject:
>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> OPEN SOURCING AUTOMOTIVE DIAGNOSTICS
>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> Open Sourcing Automotive Diagnostics [1]
>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> OPEN SOURCING AUTOMOTIVE DIAGNOSTICS
>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> I am very interested in using a Linux based computers and Open
>> 
>>>> Source
>> 
>>>>> computer systems to diagnose and maintain automobiles.  I really
>> 
>>>> think
>> 
>>>>> there could be an open market on repairs because of the cost of
>> 
>>>> modern
>> 
>>>>> automobiles and tractors is so high.
>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> I use to work for CNHI for a short contract a few years ago and
>> 
>>>> they
>> 
>>>>> along with John Deere are causing farmers to complain to the
>> point
>> 
>>>> of
>> 
>>>>> states like Nebraska coming out with laws making it legal for
>> them
>> 
>>>> to
>> 
>>>>> "hack" the computer system so they can use a malfunctioning
>> 
>>>> computer
>> 
>>>>> system in a tractor and get their crop harvested or planted.
>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> I heard in the Ukraine they are openly providing hacks and
>> cracks
>> 
>>>> to
>> 
>>>>> the farmers so they can use the tractors saving them money.
>> 
>>>> American
>> 
>>>>> farmers were rumored to be downloading these tools to fix their
>> 
>>>>> computer systems here in America.
>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> I would really like to see free market forces in play for auto
>> 
>>>> owners
>> 
>>>>> so they can remove factory equipment favor of open source
>> products
>> 
>>>> and
>> 
>>>>> computer systems that would compliment this activity.
>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> Beyond that, I would find it very interesting if there were a
>> 
>>>> forum
>> 
>>>>> and symposium on this subject here in the Phoenix area.  It
>> would
>> 
>>>>> offer a range of subjects such as securing your auto and how to
>> 
>>>> get
>> 
>>>>> the most out of an auto.
>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> So if you have ideas please share.
>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> thanks,
>> 
>>>>> Greg
>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> Links:
>> 
>>>>> ------
>> 
>>>>> [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qcBVxCZr4k
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
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>> 
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