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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">forgot to include this if anyone interested</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><a href="https://www.linklayer.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.linklayer.com/</a></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div><br></div>
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On Thursday, February 13, 2025 at 01:39:11 PM MST, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
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<div><div dir="ltr">On 2025-02-13 08:00, Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss wrote:<br clear="none">> I don't know about getting rid of *all* emissions regulations, but at<br clear="none">> least those that cause undue stress on the engines and extra<br clear="none">> unnecessary cost would be great. For instance, catalytic converters<br clear="none">> generally aren't a problem; they're just there in the exhaust and<br clear="none">> actually help to reduce the noise; it's only when they get clogged<br clear="none">> that's a problem. However, other systems like the EGR system gum up<br clear="none">> the intakes and cause problems over time. Additionally, I drive a<br clear="none">> diesel and the whole SCR system absurd both in complexity and cost to<br clear="none">> save a minuscule amount of emissions.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I a degree I disagree. I like things simple stupid (KISS).<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> I've been following Rossmann for a long time and he has a lot of good<br clear="none">> takes on stuff. I don't know about forcing manufacturers to make parts<br clear="none">> available, however the manufacturer shouldn't be able to enter into<br clear="none">> agreements to make parts unavailable. For instance Apple will go to<br clear="none">> manufacturers to make slight generally unnecessary changes to their<br clear="none">> chips and then have them sign an agreement saying that they'll only<br clear="none">> sell said chips to Apple, so then you're unable to procure replacement<br clear="none">> parts from outside sources like DigiKey.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none"><br clear="none">If manufactures fail to make parts available go to a different supplier <br clear="none">or buy from the alternate supply chain.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">> Then there's the digital lockout of systems requiring some kind of<br clear="none">> programmer to get replacement parts to talk to eachother, which Apple<br clear="none">> is guilty of and I believe John Deere does the same. In that case, I'd<br clear="none">> say that yeah there should be some way for a regular consumer to at<br clear="none">> least override/bypass that so that they can get their equipment to<br clear="none">> work on their own without the manufacturer being involved.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none"><br clear="none">Good reason not to buy Apple....<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I did one search on my Kubuntu desktop and my Android phone showed me <br clear="none">this article.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="https://hoodline.com/2025/02/arizona-attorney-general-sues-john-deere-alleging-unlawful-repair-monopoly-in-support-of-farmers/" target="_blank">https://hoodline.com/2025/02/arizona-attorney-general-sues-john-deere-alleging-unlawful-repair-monopoly-in-support-of-farmers/</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Creepy....<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Looks like John Deere is going down.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">> There's another Youtuber similar to Rossmann named Dave Jones, who<br clear="none">> runs the EEVBlog YouTube channel: <a shape="rect" href="https://www.youtube.com/@EEVblog" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/@EEVblog</a><br clear="none">> <br clear="none"><br clear="none">Thanks I'll check him out. Ok he is above my head.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">> I think one of his sayings is something like "you don't own it until<br clear="none">> you've voided the warranty".<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> On that note, if y'all are looking for modular/repairable laptops,<br clear="none">> I've been buying laptops from Framework since they came into existence<br clear="none">> something like 5 years ago now. They've been pretty good. They're<br clear="none">> about to release some new stuff on the 25th. <a shape="rect" href="https://frame.work/" target="_blank">https://frame.work/</a><br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> So far they have a 13 and 16 inch chassis with various board options.<br clear="none">> The 13 inch has had several generations of intel, the 11th, 12th,<br clear="none">> 13th, and the more recent 1X5H chips (whatever "generation" those are<br clear="none">> now), as well as an AMD 7X40 version. The 16 inch has only had a 7X40<br clear="none">> mainboard version but it's only a year old; I'm hoping for an upgraded<br clear="none">> mainboard in the announcement in a couple weeks.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> On Thu, Feb 13, 2025, at 7:37 AM, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss wrote:<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">>> I was a Chevy man during my youth. I found Chevy's where easy to<br clear="none">>> work<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> on and I generally just liked their cars.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> In AZ emissions is required for all cars 67 and newer. Might be 68.<br clear="none">>> I<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> understand that the Trump Administration might be doing away with<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> emissions requirements. I sure hope so. The oil embargo and<br clear="none">>> emissions<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> killed the muscle car era.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> Sometime ago I ran into this guy :<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> <a shape="rect" href="https://www.youtube.com/@rossmanngroup/videos" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/@rossmanngroup/videos</a><br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> Are you aware of him?<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> I think if you buy something you should have the right to repair it.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> That includes access to reasonably priced parts and even having the<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> manuals online.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> John Deere has found itself on the wrong side of the right to repair<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> issue and look what it is costing them.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> I support your effort!!! It is the American way to stand up for<br clear="none">>> what is<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> right, and if that includes Linux, I am extremely excited.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> Keith<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> On 2025-02-12 21:12, Pablo Camacho via PLUG-discuss wrote:<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>> I agree with the points that you made, Keith. Indeed, very true,<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>> electronics will not last as long as the car, yet the use of the<br clear="none">>> car<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>> depends on them.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>> I like less electronics in my car as well which is why I tried to<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>> maintain my 2001 Hyundai Accent for as long as I could.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>> My dream car would be one that is modular, easy to repair, and has<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>> easy access to critical parts in the engine bay that can be<br clear="none">>> replaced.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>> The car version of a Framework laptop.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 7:02 PM Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>> <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org" href="mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org">plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> I might step on some toes so forgive me up front.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> You said "I am very interested in using a Linux based computers<br clear="none">>> and<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> Open<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> Source computer systems to diagnose and maintain automobiles..."<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> I'm an old guy. From around 1972 to around 1984 I was a muscle<br clear="none">>> car<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> guy.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> No electronics in those cars. I like it that way.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> I hate that cars have electrons. I'm ok with an am/fm radio,<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> electric<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> windows (to a point), anything else is too much for me.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> You buy a car today and it's electronics are outdated in 5 years.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> The<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> car can go 30 years/300k miles. But the electronics cannot keep<br clear="none">>> up.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> Ok so what you are thinking of doing sounds exciting, especially<br clear="none">>> if<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> you<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> can replace the manufacture's electronics with some Linux based<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> homegrown system.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> Right to Repair is a big deal and you might be on the leading<br clear="none">>> edge<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> of<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> something big...<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> Keith<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> On 2025-02-12 18:13, greg zegan via PLUG-discuss wrote:<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> I have been wanting to ask about this subject as well because I<br clear="none">>> am<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> seriously considering this subject:<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> OPEN SOURCING AUTOMOTIVE DIAGNOSTICS<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> Open Sourcing Automotive Diagnostics [1]<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> OPEN SOURCING AUTOMOTIVE DIAGNOSTICS<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> I am very interested in using a Linux based computers and Open<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> Source<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> computer systems to diagnose and maintain automobiles. I really<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> think<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> there could be an open market on repairs because of the cost of<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> modern<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> automobiles and tractors is so high.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> I use to work for CNHI for a short contract a few years ago and<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> they<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> along with John Deere are causing farmers to complain to the<br clear="none">>> point<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> of<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> states like Nebraska coming out with laws making it legal for<br clear="none">>> them<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> to<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> "hack" the computer system so they can use a malfunctioning<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> computer<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> system in a tractor and get their crop harvested or planted.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> I heard in the Ukraine they are openly providing hacks and<br clear="none">>> cracks<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> to<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> the farmers so they can use the tractors saving them money.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> American<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> farmers were rumored to be downloading these tools to fix their<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> computer systems here in America.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> I would really like to see free market forces in play for auto<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> owners<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> so they can remove factory equipment favor of open source<br clear="none">>> products<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> and<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> computer systems that would compliment this activity.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> Beyond that, I would find it very interesting if there were a<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> forum<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> and symposium on this subject here in the Phoenix area. It<br clear="none">>> would<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> offer a range of subjects such as securing your auto and how to<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> get<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> the most out of an auto.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> So if you have ideas please share.<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> thanks,<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> Greg<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> <br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> Links:<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> ------<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> [1] <a shape="rect" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qcBVxCZr4k" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qcBVxCZr4k</a><br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org" href="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org">PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org</a><br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>>> <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss</a><div class="yqt7515047148" id="yqtfd70079"><br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> ---------------------------------------------------<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org" href="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org">PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org</a><br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>>> <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss</a><br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>> ---------------------------------------------------<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org" href="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org">PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org</a><br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>>> <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss</a><br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> ---------------------------------------------------<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org" href="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org">PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org</a><br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:<br clear="none">>> <br clear="none">>> <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss</a><br clear="none">> ---------------------------------------------------<br clear="none">> PLUG-discuss mailing list: <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org" href="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org">PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org</a><br clear="none">> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:<br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss</a><br clear="none">---------------------------------------------------<br clear="none">PLUG-discuss mailing list: <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org" href="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org">PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org</a><br clear="none">To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss</a><br clear="none"></div></div></div>
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