AZ Developer Wages, per Feds

Fri Apr 26 06:12:04 MST 2024

Ryan Petris your on a roll.  I wholeheartedly agree.

On 2024-04-25 13:45, Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss wrote:
> If you're asking whether the workers got their fair share of building
> a bridge 100 years ago given that it's stood for 100 years and that
> it's gotten a lot of use, I'd say that it really doesn't matter. The
> workers were paid a fair wage for their labor, regardless of what the
> finished product was.
> 
> Lets say that I was a scientist and I was paid $1 million per year for
> 10 years to find a cure for cancer, and I ended up finding one. The
> cure would be worth billions because it would be universally needed
> everywhere, and if you were the only person/company that had it then
> it would be worth whatever you wanted to charge for it. Should I as
> the scientist complain that I only got $10 million out of the deal
> when it's worth billions, trillions even?
> 
> If you say yes, well you're not really accounting for the risk vs
> reward. Had I as the scientist not found a cure, I'd still have made
> $10 million over the last 10 years and, if I were smart about my
> money, I'd be able to live better than most without having to lift a
> finger again the rest of my life. The company that paid me, however,
> is not only out the $10 million they paid me, but all of the
> associated costs of providing me a lab, a workspace, and materials
> that likely cost at least 10x what I was paid over the same period.
> 
> Therefore I, as the worker, had no risk. I come to work every day, do
> some work, and get paid. The company fronting the money, workspace,
> etc., took a huge risk and capital investment; without that risk and
> investment, the cure would have likely never been found. The reward
> that they get is the offset of the risk that they took. Nothing is
> ever guaranteed to succeed.
> 
> On Thu, Apr 25, 2024, at 12:51 PM, greg zegan wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> Do you ever wonder if you are really getting rewarded for all the
>> "value" you are providing for that "stake holder"?
>> 
>> If  you look at the builders of a bridge for instance that was built
>> 100 years ago when the wages were far below the
>> 
>> wage of today you can see that the stakeholders are now benefiting
>> from the labor of workers 100 years ago.
>> 
>> That project is still providing revenue that the builders may be
>> entitled to if you think about the long term value added.
>> 
>> thanks,
>> 
>> Greg
>> 
>> On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 12:20:20 PM MST, Ryan Petris
>> <ryan at petris.net> wrote:
>> 
>> As a software developer of 15 years, I personally would not want a
>> union, at least not one in a traditional sense. Additionally, I've
>> never been in a union so maybe my understanding is wrong or
>> outdated, however my reasoning for not wanting one are:
>> 
>> * I want my salary/benefits to be based on what I personally can
>> bring to the table.
>> 
>> * Similarly to #1, if I and/or my team perform better than the rest
>> of the company, I want us to be recognized for that _and_
>> compensated appropriately.
>> 
>> * I don't want to start at the bottom of the totem pole at a new
>> company because I'm the new guy.
>> 
>> * I don't want to work with people that should have been let go due
>> to their performance but are effectively being protected by the
>> union.
>> 
>> * I don't want to be forced to strike because the union is playing
>> political games that I don't care about.
>> 
>> There's a time and place for unions; when you're in the top 10% of
>> national salaries, you're not in a position to need one.
>> 
>> All that said, I work remotely, for a company that's not based in
>> Arizona, and therefore am paid relatively well compared to the local
>> Market.
>> 
>> On Thu, Apr 25, 2024, at 11:53 AM, greg zegan via PLUG-discuss
>> wrote:
>> 
>> would it be time to unionize or change the way business is done in
>> AZ?
>> 
>> On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 11:50:10 AM MST, trent shipley
>> <trent.shipley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> No.  As a rule software engineers/programmers/developers/computer
>> scientists all see themselves as professionals who are above
>> unionizing and seldom or never do.  I think we're seeing the effect
>> of Arizona being a provincial, 3rd world location for headquarters
>> and software development options.
>> 
>> It's similar to "we make the chips.  We aren't friken good enough to
>> DESIGN the chips.  They do that in NICE places."
>> 
>> On Thu, Apr 25, 2024 at 9:35 AM greg zegan <gjzegan at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Wow!
>> 
>> thanks.
>> 
>> sure look like they are taking advantage of the Right to work state
>> workers.
>> 
>> On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 09:08:07 AM MST, trent shipley via
>> PLUG-discuss <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>> 
>> https://www.onetonline.org/link/localwages/15-1251.00?st=AZ
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>> 
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> 
>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>> 
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> 
>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> ---------------------------------------------------
> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss