computer slow

[Michael]

as for the shutoff point everything that had anything to do with cutting
power was already diabled

On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:

>  $ sensors
> radeon-pci-0100
> Adapter: PCI adapter
> temp1:        +68.0°C
>
> k10temp-pci-00c3
> Adapter: PCI adapter
> temp1:        +45.1°C  (high = +70.0°C)
>                        (crit = +72.0°C, hyst = +70.0°C)
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 7:07 PM, Brien Dieterle <briend at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, it might be protecting your computer but if it is too low it will
>> just be annoying.
>> You still need to run sensors and get those numbers if you haven't yet:
>>
>> https://askubuntu.com/questions/15832/how-do-i-get-the-cpu-temperature
>>
>> If your machine is legitimately overheating you need to address that with
>> fans and ventilation, etc.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:59 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> if there is a shutoff point you did say disable it?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:56 PM, Brien Dieterle <briend at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, you're on the right track.  Try to isolate whether glmark alone
>>>> can crash it, or if you need stress as well.   Then try opening up your
>>>> case and point a fan in there.
>>>> Also don't forget to check the BIOS for thermal management events that
>>>> might be causing the shutdown/reboot.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:52 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> never mind..... I ran glmark around 5 minutes and then stress. that
>>>>> crashed the machine! Not a nice reboot (like what it does with dt) but a
>>>>> power failure outage,
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:41 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> and if glmark2 doesn't crash it run stress the same amount of time?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> how long do I let glmark2's pretty horse rotate?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:36 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> okay
>>>>>>>> `
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Brien Dieterle <briend at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd wait.   If stress alone doesn't crash, run glmark2 by itself.
>>>>>>>>> If glmark2 doesn't crash, run them both at the same time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:01 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> run this now or after stress completes?
>>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 5:59 PM, Brien Dieterle <briend at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, not yet ;-).   If it doesn't crash, you might need to
>>>>>>>>>>> stress the graphics card as well with one of these tools:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.pcsuggest.com/gpu-benchmarking-and-stress-testin
>>>>>>>>>>> g-in-linux/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So maybe kick off both stress and
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> glmark2 --run-forever
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 2:55 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> if it doesn't crash I'll start hounding the darktable forums.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just started..... lets see what happens
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Brien Dieterle <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> briend at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Forget darktable for now.  Did you run stress test for more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than 10 seconds?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This will run a stress test for 30 minutes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stress --cpu 8 --io 4 --vm 2  --hdd 2 --timeout 1800s
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you can get it to crash with just this stress program,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then it has nothing to do with darktable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no sensors running and as for it panicing when warm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sometimes it panics after I run dt 2 minutes after it had been shut down an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hour  and doesn't panic even though dt had run10 minutes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Brien Dieterle <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> briend at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Check your bios settings for hardware monitoring and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temperature limits.  You may have it set with a maximum temperature so the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine panics when it's just warm.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Try raising this number or disabling the feature entirely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But first check your sensors by installing a temperature
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> monitoring program
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2017 1:04 PM, "Michael" <bmike1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is sooo ify! I just ran it for like 10 minutes with no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crashes whereas before I had just started the computer and ran dt for 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minutes and it crashed. Then I restarted and I had a repeat performance of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 2 minute thing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  $ stress --cpu 8 --io 4 --vm 2 --vm-bytes 128M --timeout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10s
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stress: info: [7571] dispatching hogs: 8 cpu, 4 io, 2 vm,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0 hdd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stress: info: [7571] successful run completed in 10s
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I don't know what that was suppossed to tell me but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there it is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:36 PM, Michael <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am experiencing no slowness. It is like the days where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you had a power switch on the back of your computer... or it is like a hard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reboot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:33 PM, Stephen Partington <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cryptworks at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OpenCL in darktable mainly impacts rendering. it should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have no effect on on system or ram consumption unless you are experiencing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slowness during render cycles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Michael <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You know.... I'm having trouble running darktable. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems that after I start it it runs a few minutes and then reboots the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer. Probably because I do not have a GPU (I don't think). Then I saw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this thread and thought that I'd give that a try. So it seems I can not run
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chrome and darktable at the same time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ___
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'lspci' shows that my graphics card is :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RV770 [Radeon HD 4850]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and 'lspci|grep gpu' returned an empty set
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (if I did that correctly)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so I suppose the cheapest way to fix this is to get a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gpu.... correct?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 12:09 PM, Carruth, Rusty <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rusty.Carruth at smartm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In my experience, it’s almost always Firefox taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all of memory. (Or Chrome, or whatever web browser you’re using).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with Mr B, run top or htop and see what’s,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well, on top ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rusty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: SMART_HRS_RGB]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rusty Carruth | Customer Support | *rusty.carruth at smarth.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rusty.carruth at smarth.com>* | http://www.smarth.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       [image: linkedin]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/12955027/>   [image:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> twitter] <https://twitter.com/@MilSSD>See the new M4[image:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cid:image004.jpg at 01D348E7.AF930710]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/smart-high-reliability-solutions-announces-availability-its-new-highly-ruggedized-highly-2235071.htm>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> See us on Storage Search
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.storagesearch.com/smart2.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 510-624-5391 <(510)%20624-5391>   | Fax: 480-926-5579
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <(480)%20926-5579>   | 1325 N. Fiesta Blvd.  Suite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 101 Gilbert, Az. 85233
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* PLUG-discuss [mailto:plug-discuss-bounces at l
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ists.phxlinux.org] *On Behalf Of *Michael Butash
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 29, 2017 10:05 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* Main PLUG discussion list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: computer slow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I ever have that, it's usually because of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something with a memory leak, or desktop graphic compositing is degrading
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Before you reboot, see if you can ssh into it from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another computer and check htop (or just top all you have), see if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something is consuming all your memory or cpu.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Desktop compositors are all shite from what I can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell (including windoze), they're all just a varying degree of broken when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you push them, or just have a slow (or buggy) video card.  Depending on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your desktop environment of choice, try turning down graphics options, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabling the compositor all together to see if it helps stability.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -mb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 3:41 AM, Michael <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm almost certain that in my bag of tricks I had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instructions on 'resetting' my computer when it started acting weird but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't find them. Riddle me this: I try to leave the computer on 24/7 (maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I shouldn't do that) and twice so far I come up to it and it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-responsive or really slow to respond. Anyone know how to fix this?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mail
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> man/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mail
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> man/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mail
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> man/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> snooze button.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stephen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
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>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
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>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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>>
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>
>
>
> --
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>



-- 
:-)~MIKE~(-:
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