More dysfunctional Ubuntu-isms
Brian Cluff
brian at snaptek.com
Tue Nov 8 20:17:33 MST 2016
I just had to kill that on my home machine. It was making me wait 5
minutes even though I actually already had a connection... lame.
Brian Cluff
On 11/08/2016 09:54 AM, Stephen Partington wrote:
> I do much the same here. But if you are installing something that does
> not have an always connected network you might want to adjust the wait
> timeout for networking sooner than later. 5m boot delays are weird and
> annoying.
>
> On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 8:59 AM, Brian Cluff <brian at snaptek.com
> <mailto:brian at snaptek.com>> wrote:
>
> In my experience the server install is pretty much just a minimal
> install that asks you at the end if you want to install certain
> typical server software. I just normally just pick SSH server and
> then add whatever I want after the first boot. I've always had
> less problems installing the server over rather than the desktop
> install because of the odd graphics card problems that pop up from
> time to time (but hardly ever these days) since the server install
> uses a text based installer. The server install will allow you
> easily install a basic system and then install the proprietary
> graphics drivers afterwards skipping having to have them to
> install in the first place.
>
> The only real gotcha is that it takes longer to install since much
> of your software (aka your entire desktop environment) will have
> to be downloaded over the Internet rather than coming off of nice
> fast flash drives or DVDs. You could, if you are in a hurry,
> install via the server install disk and then use the packages on
> the desktop install to feed your desktop install, but in the long
> run it probably won't save you any time since you would still want
> to update everything over the Internet and that would take just
> about as long. Then again, if you have the server installed, you
> can actually be doing stuff to customize your install at the same
> time that it's installing/updating so it's probably all in all a
> speed win.
>
> Brian Cluff
>
> On 11/08/2016 12:49 AM, trent shipley wrote:
>> What are some of the gotchas he can expect in installing: server
>> -> delta desktop repository -> delta desktop gui -> no more than
>> two days tweaking system? OR:
>> desktop install -> delta server -> tweak?
>>
>> I'd expect using the server distro as the base to work better
>> with a server enabled workstation, but that's just a layperson's
>> hunch.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 3:35 PM Brian Cluff <brian at snaptek.com
>> <mailto:brian at snaptek.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Plus one for the server install DVD. If you are going to do
>> anything out of the norm, always reach for the server
>> install. Then just apt install kubuntu-desktop when
>> everything is done installing.
>>
>> Kde neon is pretty good right now and about the only way to
>> get an up to date kde experience right now, but it will still
>> use the Ubuntu installer. It would probably be best for you
>> to use the server install cd, then add the neon repositories,
>> and then install the the neon-desktop
>>
>>
>> Brian Cluff
>>
>> On November 7, 2016 1:17:07 PM MST, Stephen Partington
>> <cryptworks at gmail.com <mailto:cryptworks at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Wow. you worked much harder with the desktop install
>> media than i would have. I usually 86 the desktop install
>> media and just use the server install media to get the
>> LVM/Raid settings i want to use. i just have to remember
>> to disable the network wait on boot.
>>
>> I am about to try something like this again for a while
>> as Windows 10 is irking me again more and more.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Michael Butash
>> <mike at butash.net <mailto:mike at butash.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Sorry for the fire and forget, had to rebuild a data
>> center for a customer over the weekend - I was just
>> really hoping to have the darn box up before I left
>> to work on it remote, such a simple feat normally,
>> but I had no time for anyways.
>>
>> Rest inline...
>>
>>
>> On 11/03/2016 03:54 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 2 Nov 2016 18:38:24 -0700
>> Michael Butash <mike at butash.net
>> <mailto:mike at butash.net>> wrote:
>>
>> This is really why I have a hate/love
>> relation with ubuntu, it never
>> fails to disappoint. My road to 16.04 has
>> been all upgrades so far,
>> this time I'm using 16.04.1 cd's from scratch.
>>
>> Curious: What do you love about it? You seem like
>> the kind of person
>> who could work with any distro.
>>
>> Short answer, it usually works where others do not
>> with my graphics, a 6-head amd video card which until
>> recently, I used all ports on.
>>
>> Long story, probably tldr (you asked!), definitely
>> love/hate...
>>
>> After my last straw with windoze and making the
>> decision to force myself to use linux to both learn
>> and abandon m$ shitty ecosystem circa 2006, I tried a
>> bit of everything disto-wise. I always loathed
>> redhat and rpm hell (no, yum didn't entirely fix
>> this, and much later), I came from
>> slackware/open|freebsd/solaris background having no
>> desire to go back, and oddly landed on Mandrake for a
>> bit. Until I started hacking on it, and things came
>> unglued.
>>
>> I decided to try Ubuntu after reading about debian
>> roots I've heard praised (tried for 2 seconds, got
>> annoyed, don't remember now why), I think 6.04 at the
>> time, and oddly it "just worked".
>>
>> I didn't begin to have any real issues until 10.10
>> until the era of unity hell began, and they started
>> trying to make Ubuntu install more idiot-proof for,
>> well idiots. Sadly it removed all the good features
>> like complex raid, crypto, and lvm setup, making it
>> about as stupid as possible, but there was always the
>> alt installer and just simply not using unity, if I
>> could just get the damn os on a system. Thanks
>> Canonical.
>>
>> They then pissed on that, fiddling with (breaking)
>> the alt installer removing fdisk (it's what I used
>> for my raid+crypto+lvm setup), and ultimately doing
>> away with the alt installer all together as insult to
>> injury. Again I worked around them in other ways,
>> building my fs manually with an arch cd first
>> learning how to build it all manually from busybox
>> again, and trick the netboot installer into working
>> over it. Thanks again Canonoical.
>>
>> Around 2014, I got really annoyed after dist-upgrade
>> blew up my system that I decide to sojourn a bit and
>> explore distros again with a new laptop I'd gotten.
>> I couldn't even get fedora's vaunted installer to
>> reproduce my raid+crypt+lvm setup, and despised the
>> notion of going back to it anyways, but at the
>> request of a friend that for some reason likes it,
>> tried. Even tried Red Hat's official installer, more
>> broken than fedora, scratch either/or. Tried Arch
>> too, got to a desktop, and found hell with the AMD
>> drivers and graphics capabilities in general.
>>
>> I settled on Mint Debian edition with Mate, as
>> Cinnamon was all sorts of broken with compositing on
>> even the most basic intel gpu, which seemed like
>> instant fail. Mate was great, and used that for a
>> bit until with some new ssd's I'd begun to rebuild my
>> desktop with mint de mate, and found ATI graphic hell
>> in my desktop. AMD only cares about fedora/ubuntu as
>> a linux entity, knew it would likely work there, and
>> again hacked ubuntu back onto my system. It's the
>> same install I'm using today, and eventually moved my
>> laptop back to ubuntu.
>>
>> What I really can't fathom is how Canonical can keep
>> breaking their installers in such new and creative
>> ways each time, and only I seem to notice, but then
>> again, I expect linux features most people don't know
>> even exist or care about like raid, crypto, or volume
>> management.
>>
>> If BTRFS or ZFS supported better encryption, I'd love
>> to use one native fs to do all the raid/crypto/lvm in
>> it. I think as of this year, either/both might, so
>> worth exploring, but I bet ubuntu's installers will
>> still suck in dealing with them.
>>
>> Yes, AMD is a root evil for linux graphics and at
>> times the kernels, but nvidia to this day still has
>> not put out a 6-head video card like AMD that I
>> actually use all 6 ports of. Now I have 3x montiors
>> (well, tv's), so this new one has a nice new 1070
>> card in it. Which thanks to their crappy business
>> practices too of not releasing firmware immediately
>> (that amd would decompile), I know nouveau has issues
>> with, and the binary drive is necessary. I'm handy
>> with cli here, not too worried, more that their
>> drivers suck too these days.
>>
>> I really don't want to have to make a circle
>> of distro's to end up
>> back here again, but ubuntu is always so
>> basically dysfunctional
>> these days with the most basic things, it's
>> hard to want to care.
>>
>> I wonder how much others have seen this.
>> This is with legacy boot in
>> bios, no uefi crap, and just a basic d-i
>> based ubuntu server install,
>> and/or kubuntu.
>>
>> I used Ubuntu for several years because it "just
>> works." The trouble
>> was, as I got more sophisticated, Ubuntu's
>> seatbelts and airbags and
>> danger sensing devices and training wheels and
>> all that other stuff so
>> necessary to the newbie badly got in my way.
>>
>> I agree, it feels almost childish to still use Ubuntu
>> at this stage, but nothing else has worked suitably,
>> and I'm somewhat tired of trying+disappointment when
>> history has proven most others to be inadequate or worse.
>>
>> So I ditched Ubuntu for Debian, and that was
>> great, but then Debian
>> went systemd so I switched to Void Linux, and
>> after a rocky 5 weeks of
>> Void newbie-ism, Void has turned out to be the
>> most useful, maleable
>> and stable distro I've ever used. I've used Void
>> for over a year now.
>>
>> That's why I tried Mint Debian Edition - figured deb
>> it might suck less and just wanted a modern ui, but
>> found that their driver support for AMD, or rather a
>> support for modern versions thereof for graphics were
>> fairly lacking, and no one from a major org cares
>> enough to fix it. I simply could not get their
>> kernel to take the amd driver, which was a
>> non-starter. It's actually what drove me finally back
>> to Ubuntu natively just for a working video solution,
>> and at times keeps me bound.
>>
>> I think you've probably outgrown Ubuntu.
>>
>> See above. It tends to work great as long as I don't
>> have to 1) install it via "normal" means or 2)
>> upgrade it, both often suck these days. Both have
>> simply continued to get worse and worse, and I only
>> encounter them every few years out of necessity of
>> they are also both my primary means of working as my
>> own business. Once I hit 14.04 stable, I upgraded
>> only upon absolute necessity core functions like
>> kernel or desktop libs, and only essential apps that
>> require them (browsers really), but otherwise didn't
>> upgrade core until 16.04 when it released. That's
>> been a current longer evolutionary story I'll get to
>> eventually.
>>
>> BUT, as far as your current no-booting installer
>> problem, I wonder if
>> your media are bad. Just for fun, boot System
>> Rescue CD and have a look
>> around the system to verify no disk or RAM
>> problems, and that the
>> processor is what you think it is. If you can't
>> boot System Rescue CD
>> either, that points an accusing finger at your
>> DVD drive.
>>
>> This is something I'd seen before actually, I'd
>> mentioned another time about arch and disk-label
>> usage. I don't think it's media, but who knows. My
>> 10 year old spindle of dvd-r's might be breaking down
>> by now, but first time I've seen this with a
>> anything, why I tried both the built-in, and a usb,
>> of which I've used hundreds of times to boot things,
>> almost always said linux boxes over the past 10
>> years, another not long ago.
>>
>> Also, try burning your disks with cdrecord (or
>> wodim) instead of a gui.
>> I use a command something like this:
>>
>> cdrecord dev=/dev/sr0 padsize=63s
>> driveropts=burnfree \
>> -pad -dao -v -eject myimage.iso
>>
>> The padsize=63s and -pad help with the Linux
>> readahead bug. Burnfree
>> means you don't unknowingly make coasters or bad
>> discs if your computer
>> can't deliver the data fast enough.
>>
>> If you perform the burn like I mentioned above,
>> you *should* be able to
>> md5 check the disc to the same md5sum as the iso
>> file by following
>> directions here:
>>
>> http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/coasterless.htm
>> <http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/coasterless.htm>
>>
>> Interesting - I've not had to adjust a cd like that
>> using k3b on linux ever or nero in win since doing so
>> for pirated drm games. Only time seeing something
>> like that is using unetbootin to make the usb where
>> it doesn't know the iso expects a certain disk label
>> to exist. This seemed more a sloppy iso build in the
>> few hours I had with the system and ample frustration
>> to write that.
>>
>> Thank you for that tidbit, I'll try it after I fiddle
>> with the bios more on this. I'm going to try a kde
>> neon build (really what I'm interested in more here),
>> I just didn't have the time as it showed up 5 hours
>> before I had to pack, sleep, and hop on a plane (sad,
>> I know). It's a t7910 precision dell, more a server
>> board than desktop, so I'd really expect better
>> behaviour here on either pc or ubuntu.
>>
>> I'll update when I get to it tonight hopefully.
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> SteveT
>>
>> Steve Litt
>> November 2016 featured book: Quit Joblessness:
>> Start Your Own Business
>> http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz
>> <http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will
>> prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep
>> after you hit the snooze button.
>>
>> Stephen
>>
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> --
> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
> Stephen
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