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<p>I just had to kill that on my home machine. It was making me
wait 5 minutes even though I actually already had a connection...
lame.</p>
<p>Brian Cluff<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/08/2016 09:54 AM, Stephen
Partington wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CACS_G9ydgZU9YBQJuw0pDf9JQAKmh4hFRwfa3-XAfe_+U-mQGw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet
ms,sans-serif">I do much the same here. But if you are
installing something that does not have an always connected
network you might want to adjust the wait timeout for
networking sooner than later. 5m boot delays are weird and
annoying.</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 8:59 AM, Brian
Cluff <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:brian@snaptek.com" target="_blank">brian@snaptek.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>In my experience the server install is pretty much just
a minimal install that asks you at the end if you want
to install certain typical server software. I just
normally just pick SSH server and then add whatever I
want after the first boot. I've always had less
problems installing the server over rather than the
desktop install because of the odd graphics card
problems that pop up from time to time (but hardly ever
these days) since the server install uses a text based
installer. The server install will allow you easily
install a basic system and then install the proprietary
graphics drivers afterwards skipping having to have them
to install in the first place.</p>
<p>The only real gotcha is that it takes longer to install
since much of your software (aka your entire desktop
environment) will have to be downloaded over the
Internet rather than coming off of nice fast flash
drives or DVDs. You could, if you are in a hurry,
install via the server install disk and then use the
packages on the desktop install to feed your desktop
install, but in the long run it probably won't save you
any time since you would still want to update everything
over the Internet and that would take just about as
long. Then again, if you have the server installed, you
can actually be doing stuff to customize your install at
the same time that it's installing/updating so it's
probably all in all a speed win.<span class="HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888"><br>
</font></span></p>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<p>Brian Cluff<br>
</p>
</font></span>
<div>
<div class="h5"> On 11/08/2016 12:49 AM, trent shipley
wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">What are some of the gotchas he can
expect in installing: server -> delta desktop
repository -> delta desktop gui -> no more
than two days tweaking system? OR:
<div>desktop install -> delta server ->
tweak?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'd expect using the server distro as the
base to work better with a server enabled
workstation, but that's just a layperson's
hunch.</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 3:35 PM
Brian Cluff <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:brian@snaptek.com"
target="_blank">brian@snaptek.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">Plus
one for the server install DVD. If you are
going to do anything out of the norm, always
reach for the server install. Then just apt
install kubuntu-desktop when everything is
done installing.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
Kde neon is pretty good right now and about
the only way to get an up to date kde
experience right now, but it will still use
the Ubuntu installer. It would probably be
best for you to use the server install cd,
then add the neon repositories, and then
install the the neon-desktop</div>
<div class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"><br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
Brian Cluff<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<div class="gmail_quote
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">On November
7, 2016 1:17:07 PM MST, Stephen Partington
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cryptworks@gmail.com"
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
target="_blank">cryptworks@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
</div>
<div class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<div class="gmail_quote
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<div class="gmail_default
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
style="font-family:trebuchet
ms,sans-serif">Wow. you worked much
harder with the desktop install media
than i would have. I usually 86 the
desktop install media and just use the
server install media to get the
LVM/Raid settings i want to use. i
just have to remember to disable the
network wait on boot.</div>
<div class="gmail_default
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
style="font-family:trebuchet
ms,sans-serif"><br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
style="font-family:trebuchet
ms,sans-serif">I am about to try
something like this again for a while
as Windows 10 is irking me again more
and more.</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"><br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<div class="gmail_quote
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">On
Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Michael
Butash <span dir="ltr"
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mike@butash.net"
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
target="_blank">mike@butash.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">Sorry for
the fire and forget, had to rebuild
a data center for a customer over
the weekend - I was just really
hoping to have the darn box up
before I left to work on it remote,
such a simple feat normally, but I
had no time for anyways.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
Rest inline...<span
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"><br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
On 11/03/2016 03:54 AM, Steve Litt
wrote:<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"><span
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
On Wed, 2 Nov 2016 18:38:24
-0700<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
Michael Butash <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mike@butash.net"
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" target="_blank">mike@butash.net</a>>
wrote:<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</span><span
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"> This
is really why I have a
hate/love relation with
ubuntu, it never<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
fails to disappoint. My road
to 16.04 has been all upgrades
so far,<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
this time I'm using 16.04.1
cd's from scratch.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</blockquote>
Curious: What do you love about
it? You seem like the kind of
person<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
who could work with any distro.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</span></blockquote>
Short answer, it usually works where
others do not with my graphics, a
6-head amd video card which until
recently, I used all ports on.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
Long story, probably tldr (you
asked!), definitely love/hate...<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
After my last straw with windoze and
making the decision to force myself
to use linux to both learn and
abandon m$ shitty ecosystem circa
2006, I tried a bit of everything
disto-wise. I always loathed redhat
and rpm hell (no, yum didn't
entirely fix this, and much later),
I came from
slackware/open|freebsd/solaris
background having no desire to go
back, and oddly landed on Mandrake
for a bit. Until I started hacking
on it, and things came unglued.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
I decided to try Ubuntu after
reading about debian roots I've
heard praised (tried for 2 seconds,
got annoyed, don't remember now
why), I think 6.04 at the time, and
oddly it "just worked".<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
I didn't begin to have any real
issues until 10.10 until the era of
unity hell began, and they started
trying to make Ubuntu install more
idiot-proof for, well idiots. Sadly
it removed all the good features
like complex raid, crypto, and lvm
setup, making it about as stupid as
possible, but there was always the
alt installer and just simply not
using unity, if I could just get the
damn os on a system. Thanks
Canonical.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
They then pissed on that, fiddling
with (breaking) the alt installer
removing fdisk (it's what I used for
my raid+crypto+lvm setup), and
ultimately doing away with the alt
installer all together as insult to
injury. Again I worked around them
in other ways, building my fs
manually with an arch cd first
learning how to build it all
manually from busybox again, and
trick the netboot installer into
working over it. Thanks again
Canonoical.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
Around 2014, I got really annoyed
after dist-upgrade blew up my system
that I decide to sojourn a bit and
explore distros again with a new
laptop I'd gotten. I couldn't even
get fedora's vaunted installer to
reproduce my raid+crypt+lvm setup,
and despised the notion of going
back to it anyways, but at the
request of a friend that for some
reason likes it, tried. Even tried
Red Hat's official installer, more
broken than fedora, scratch
either/or. Tried Arch too, got to a
desktop, and found hell with the AMD
drivers and graphics capabilities in
general.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
I settled on Mint Debian edition
with Mate, as Cinnamon was all sorts
of broken with compositing on even
the most basic intel gpu, which
seemed like instant fail. Mate was
great, and used that for a bit until
with some new ssd's I'd begun to
rebuild my desktop with mint de
mate, and found ATI graphic hell in
my desktop. AMD only cares about
fedora/ubuntu as a linux entity,
knew it would likely work there, and
again hacked ubuntu back onto my
system. It's the same install I'm
using today, and eventually moved my
laptop back to ubuntu.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
What I really can't fathom is how
Canonical can keep breaking their
installers in such new and creative
ways each time, and only I seem to
notice, but then again, I expect
linux features most people don't
know even exist or care about like
raid, crypto, or volume management.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
If BTRFS or ZFS supported better
encryption, I'd love to use one
native fs to do all the
raid/crypto/lvm in it. I think as
of this year, either/both might, so
worth exploring, but I bet ubuntu's
installers will still suck in
dealing with them.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
Yes, AMD is a root evil for linux
graphics and at times the kernels,
but nvidia to this day still has not
put out a 6-head video card like AMD
that I actually use all 6 ports of.
Now I have 3x montiors (well, tv's),
so this new one has a nice new 1070
card in it. Which thanks to their
crappy business practices too of not
releasing firmware immediately (that
amd would decompile), I know nouveau
has issues with, and the binary
drive is necessary. I'm handy with
cli here, not too worried, more that
their drivers suck too these days.<span
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"><br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"> I
really don't want to have to
make a circle of distro's to
end up<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
back here again, but ubuntu is
always so basically
dysfunctional<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
these days with the most basic
things, it's hard to want to
care.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
I wonder how much others have
seen this. This is with
legacy boot in<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
bios, no uefi crap, and just a
basic d-i based ubuntu server
install,<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
and/or kubuntu.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</blockquote>
I used Ubuntu for several years
because it "just works." The
trouble<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
was, as I got more
sophisticated, Ubuntu's
seatbelts and airbags and<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
danger sensing devices and
training wheels and all that
other stuff so<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
necessary to the newbie badly
got in my way.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</blockquote>
</span> I agree, it feels almost
childish to still use Ubuntu at this
stage, but nothing else has worked
suitably, and I'm somewhat tired of
trying+disappointment when history
has proven most others to be
inadequate or worse.<span
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"><br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"> So I
ditched Ubuntu for Debian, and
that was great, but then Debian<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
went systemd so I switched to
Void Linux, and after a rocky 5
weeks of<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
Void newbie-ism, Void has turned
out to be the most useful,
maleable<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
and stable distro I've ever
used. I've used Void for over a
year now.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</blockquote>
</span> That's why I tried Mint
Debian Edition - figured deb it
might suck less and just wanted a
modern ui, but found that their
driver support for AMD, or rather a
support for modern versions thereof
for graphics were fairly lacking,
and no one from a major org cares
enough to fix it. I simply could
not get their kernel to take the amd
driver, which was a non-starter.
It's actually what drove me finally
back to Ubuntu natively just for a
working video solution, and at times
keeps me bound.<span
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"><br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"> I think
you've probably outgrown Ubuntu.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</blockquote>
</span> See above. It tends to work
great as long as I don't have to 1)
install it via "normal" means or 2)
upgrade it, both often suck these
days. Both have simply continued to
get worse and worse, and I only
encounter them every few years out
of necessity of they are also both
my primary means of working as my
own business. Once I hit 14.04
stable, I upgraded only upon
absolute necessity core functions
like kernel or desktop libs, and
only essential apps that require
them (browsers really), but
otherwise didn't upgrade core until
16.04 when it released. That's been
a current longer evolutionary story
I'll get to eventually.<span
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"><br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"> BUT, as
far as your current no-booting
installer problem, I wonder if<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
your media are bad. Just for
fun, boot System Rescue CD and
have a look<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
around the system to verify no
disk or RAM problems, and that
the<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
processor is what you think it
is. If you can't boot System
Rescue CD<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
either, that points an accusing
finger at your DVD drive.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</blockquote>
</span> This is something I'd seen
before actually, I'd mentioned
another time about arch and
disk-label usage. I don't think
it's media, but who knows. My 10
year old spindle of dvd-r's might be
breaking down by now, but first time
I've seen this with a anything, why
I tried both the built-in, and a
usb, of which I've used hundreds of
times to boot things, almost always
said linux boxes over the past 10
years, another not long ago.<span
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"><br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"> Also,
try burning your disks with
cdrecord (or wodim) instead of a
gui.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
I use a command something like
this:<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
cdrecord dev=/dev/sr0
padsize=63s driveropts=burnfree
\<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
-pad -dao -v -eject myimage.iso<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
The padsize=63s and -pad help
with the Linux readahead bug.
Burnfree<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
means you don't unknowingly make
coasters or bad discs if your
computer<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
can't deliver the data fast
enough.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
If you perform the burn like I
mentioned above, you *should* be
able to<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
md5 check the disc to the same
md5sum as the iso file by
following<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
directions here:<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/coasterless.htm"
rel="noreferrer"
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
target="_blank">http://www.troubleshooters.<wbr>com/linux/coasterless.htm</a><br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</blockquote>
</span> Interesting - I've not had
to adjust a cd like that using k3b
on linux ever or nero in win since
doing so for pirated drm games. Only
time seeing something like that is
using unetbootin to make the usb
where it doesn't know the iso
expects a certain disk label to
exist. This seemed more a sloppy
iso build in the few hours I had
with the system and ample
frustration to write that.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
Thank you for that tidbit, I'll try
it after I fiddle with the bios more
on this. I'm going to try a kde
neon build (really what I'm
interested in more here), I just
didn't have the time as it showed up
5 hours before I had to pack, sleep,
and hop on a plane (sad, I know).
It's a t7910 precision dell, more a
server board than desktop, so I'd
really expect better behaviour here
on either pc or ubuntu.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
I'll update when I get to it tonight
hopefully.
<div
class="m_2792327019177089564m_2380351049852680923HOEnZb
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<div
class="m_2792327019177089564m_2380351049852680923h5
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"><br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"> HTH,<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
SteveT<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
Steve Litt<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
November 2016 featured book:
Quit Joblessness: Start Your
Own Business<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz"
rel="noreferrer"
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
target="_blank">http://www.troubleshooters.<wbr>com/startbiz</a><br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
------------------------------<wbr>---------------------<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
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class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
target="_blank">http://lists.phxlinux.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss</a><br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</blockquote>
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
------------------------------<wbr>---------------------<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
PLUG-discuss mailing list - <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org"
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" target="_blank">PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.<wbr>org</a><br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to
change your mail settings:<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss"
rel="noreferrer"
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
target="_blank">http://lists.phxlinux.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss</a><br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
clear="all">
<div
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"><br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</div>
-- <br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<div
class="m_2792327019177089564m_2380351049852680923gmail_signature
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">A
mouse trap, placed on top of your
alarm clock, will prevent you from
rolling over and going back to sleep
after you hit the snooze button.<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
Stephen<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<br
class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<div class="gmail_quote
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote
m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg"
style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<pre class="m_2792327019177089564m_2380351049852680923k9mail m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg">PLUG-discuss mailing list - <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org" class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" target="_blank">PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.<wbr>org</a>
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss" class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" target="_blank">http://lists.phxlinux.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss</a></pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
------------------------------<wbr>---------------------
PLUG-discuss mailing list - <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org" class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" target="_blank">PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.<wbr>org</a>
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss" rel="noreferrer" class="m_2792327019177089564gmail_msg" target="_blank">http://lists.phxlinux.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss</a></blockquote>
</div>
<fieldset class="m_2792327019177089564mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre>------------------------------<wbr>---------------------
PLUG-discuss mailing list - <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_2792327019177089564moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org" target="_blank">PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.<wbr>org</a>
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_2792327019177089564moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.phxlinux.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss</a></pre>
</blockquote>
</div></div></div>
------------------------------<wbr>---------------------
PLUG-discuss mailing list - <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org">PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.<wbr>org</a>
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.phxlinux.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss</a>
</blockquote></div>
<div>
</div>--
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
Stephen
</div>
</div>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre wrap="">---------------------------------------------------
PLUG-discuss mailing list - <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org">PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org</a>
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss">http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss</a></pre>
</blockquote>
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