****Re: ot: Fourth Amendment... gone forever?

[Erich Newell]

Ok...I normally stay away from political discussions that aren't in
person because the amount of requisite typing to make a cogent point
is just too much of a time commitment. That said, I'd like to dump in
a simple but alternate perspective that I see very little conversation
around...and what I feel (and will leave you to mull over without in
depth analysis from me) describes the ideal (yep I'm laying it out
there: IDEAL) approach to healthcare.

First and foremost: please note that the topic at hand is
*healthcare*. Not *insurance*. By definition, insurance is a service
to aid the policy holder in *the unlikely event* that <the insured
event> may occur.

This situation simply does not apply for 90% of doctor's and ER
visits. Herein lies the problem. These things should not be covered by
*insurance* but by a *healthcare* program. A socialized version which
covers everything from the common cold through prenatal care to
pneumonia should be covered (see: Oregon Plan). Anything above that?
Would require *insurance*.

The national healthcare program would negotiate contracts with doctors
in the same way HMOs and PPOs do. This approach should not overburden
the existing infrastructure and in the long run should cost far less.
Right now our Emergency Rooms are clogged with the uninsured and
indigent. If these individuals could simply obtain basic preventative
medicine, our entire society would be better as a whole: A healthy
worker is much more likely to be a happy, productive worker. Look at
the number of ERs and hospitals that have closed in southern
California in the past couple of years...some will point to migrants,
but the problem is simply more acute there.

I cannot tell you the number of times I went to an ER with a simple
sinus infection when I was younger because I didn't have insurance and
had no where else to go. What a waste.

Some people consider this approach cruel or class-separatist because
if an individual contracts a fatal (but treatable) disease that is
beyond the scope of the basic universal healthcare and do not have
insurance, they're SOL. Much like some 30+% of the USA already is
today.

Those who can afford insurance can still go get it, and the rest of
the country will at least have a basic safety net to keep them in
relatively good health.

*Comments are Welcome

- Erich

On Feb 13, 2008 9:39 AM, keith smith <klsmith2020 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> You say "already answered that - see today's Arizona Republic that
> specifically
>
> speaks to prostrate cancer and the timetable for response. I'm glad you
> didn't get sucked into an emotional argument that has little merit."
>
> How do you know until the MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL makes a diagnosis.
>
> I read a lot of stuff that is not true on inaccurate or only
> tells part of the story.
>
> I've lived a few years and have watched the Government and how inefficient
> it is. Anyone who pays attention will see how accurate
> my statement is.
>
>
>
>
> Craig White <craigwhite at azapple.com> wrote:
>  On Wed, 2008-02-13 at 07:56 -0800, keith smith wrote:
> > Any time the government gets involved you can bet efficiency will go
> > down while cost will go up.
> ----
> why? because I buy into memes posited by others who want me to believe
> them without examination?
> ----
> > I think his point is that you do not have to worry about going BK
> > since you will die without treatment.
> ----
> already answered that - see today's Arizona Republic that specifically
> speaks to prostrate cancer and the timetable for response. I'm glad you
> didn't get sucked into an emotional argument that has little merit.
> ----
> > My father used to complain a lot about our American way of life. He
> > especially complained about the amount of taxes he paid.
> ----
> ahh...perhaps we didn't have the same father
> ----
> > While I would like to pay less taxes, I sure did enjoy the 101, 202,
> > I-10, etc while I lived in Phoenix.
> ----
> the 1/2 cent road tax was voted by Maricopa County residents. This of
> course has nothing to do with health care.
> ----
> > Our government does some good stuff like solid waist removal, sewer,
> > water.... ETC.
> >
> > However I do not want my government to be involved in anything beyond
> > roads, police, fire, sewer, and water.
> ----
> watch Sicko - you will figure out that government actually provides
> 'socialized' services in many other arena's too.
> ----
> > I worked for an HMO 10 years ago and they need to be held accountable.
> > Still not a bad system.
> ----
> Thankfully, the thrusts by various political factions to limit awards on
> medical malpractice haven't been too effective but it's not from a lack
> of will or effort.
>
> Craig
>
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-- 
"A man is defined by the questions that he asks; and the way he goes
about finding the answers to those questions is the way he goes
through life."