The project

[Derek Neighbors]

Um I have a crap load to say on this topic.  (Alan I promise I am not
ignoring you)  Both as a PLUG member, AZOTO board member and maintainer of
GNUe. ;)

I am in the busiest season of my life right now, but there will be some
slow down soon.  I will reply to this thread hopefully by the end of the
weekend in detail.  I am not sure I can commit to a March 3rd meeting
because of other committments, but I could likely do email or irc exchange
on functionality level within certain components.  More to come....

-Derek
> With regard to event planning being a large market (not niche) I must
> agree,
> further more if your develop a reasonable interface and generic ERM/P
> functionality then templates for various events could be developed to take
> care of a broader range of events.  ie, a template set for Installfests,
> and
> another set for Fundraising events, and onather set for weedings, and yet
> another set for funerals.  If you use a standerd object plan you could
> creat
> XML templates that genorate the template event, ready for modification.
>
> With regard to language, it should not be an issue at this point.  We as
> developers should come up with the requirements and architecture that
> meets
> those requirements and then choice a language that fits.  I personally
> feel
> JAVA is a fine choice, and while PHP interpreters exist on multiply
> platforms
> JAVA is far more standard (when was the last time you walked up to a
> windows
> machine that was Python or Pearl ready?)   In  addition, you can always
> plug
> other Language modules rite into it.  I have occasion to use a hand full
> of
> PHP and C++ modules in Java, just check platform choice mod and plug in.
> So
> nice :)
>
> But it may be after the design aspect is done that another language
> provides a
> cleaner path to product…  but it is a decision that should wait until much
> later in the design.
>
> Also I really have not found any other product that meets the ongoing
> concerns
> of event planning and management…  There are many things I would like to
> see
> in these products that just are not their, so if there is a core group
> willing
> to proceed with a project, I for one see a really benefit to home grown in
> this case.
>
>
> Quoting Trent Shipley <tshipley@deru.com>:
>
>> On Thursday 2005-02-24 06:13, Alan Dayley wrote:
>> > Joseph is the guy spearheading the project right now.  I'll just bring
>> it
>> > up here like I brought it up at the last Devel meeting.  Then, as
>> Joseph
>> > planned, we can proceed with the discussion.
>> >
>> > History
>> >
>> > When the Devel meetings were first started, one of the stated wishes
>> was
>> > that projects would grow out of the group.  Ideas for doing
>> applications
>> > for education, both testing and administration were the strongest
>> > candidates along with a brief discussion about a game.  None of
>> these
>> > took hold.
>> >
>> > Prior to Alex setting up monthly InstallFests (yea Alex!), PLUG used
>> to do
>> > big InstallFests about once a year, give or take.
>>
>> <snip topic="lost data and methods"/>
>>
>> > The Idea
>> >
>> > From this experience with InstallFests, a few members thought a
>> great
>> > project would be to make an application suite to handle all the
>> > coordination needs of an InstallFest.  Released under the GPL, it
>> could
>> > benefit FS groups everywhere.  Then, allowing the dream to grow, we
>> > thought this could be adapted to coordinate any event, all the way up
>> to
>> > conferences and trade shows.  So, the event application suite idea
>> was
>> > born.  And, it simmered in a few brains too busy to do much about
>> it.
>> >
>> > Last Meeting
>> >
>> > The last Devel Meeting found us without a specific presentation.  I
>> sprung
>> > this history and idea on the members present.  An excellent
>> discussion
>> > ensued.  Some present had experience working with event planners and
>> many
>> > had experience doing database applications with different tools.
>> I'll
>> > just do some summary bullets about some of the points I remember:
>> > - Event planners currently are a small, niche industry.
>>
>> Joseph brought that up.  I'm not certain I believe it.  Weddings are a
>> type of
>> event, therefore wedding planners must need event planning software.
>> Every
>> arena and civic center needs an event planner.  Every funeral home needs
>> an
>> event planner and so on.  If there is an event, some agent has to plan
>> it.
>> (Unless it is a "happening" which is a minimally planned event.)
>>
>> > - Because the industry is small, there are not any known (at least to
>> the
>> > group present) commercial applications for doing the planning.
>> Those
>> > doing it use spreadsheets and custom Access apps and the like.
>>
>> Per Joseph, and this I believe.
>>
>> > - Development of the application would probably proceed as follows:
>> > -- Support for monthly small InstallFest
>> > -- Then large InstallFest
>> (We would call this a "FOSS Expo")
>> > -- Then large event (type to be chosen later)
>>
>> Stages two and three were not well specified.  It was assumed that IF
>> the
>> monthly install fest folks could not find what they needed by shopping,
>> THEN
>> they would agree to be the first customers for the proposed event
>> planning
>> project.
>>
>> Since no one at PLUG or AZOTO has committed to doing an Expo, phase two
>> is not
>> yet defined.  IF we do proceed with an Expo THEN it would be a phase two
>>
>> customer, probably THE phase two customer.
>>
>> > - An open source application was found on freshmeat.  (Ed, I can't
>> find
>> > it!)  It has a BSD-style license with a "no commercial use" clause.
>> We
>> > don't think that fits what the group wants.
>>
>> The product was OpenConf.
>> See http://www.zakongroup.com/technology/openconf.shtml
>>
>> At the end of the meeting the InstallFest folks had not determined
>> whether
>> OpenConf would suit their needs.  My recollection was that they thought
>> it
>> might well do so since the license was compatible with their immediate
>> needs
>> (they would not use OpenConf commercially).  I further understood that
>> IF
>> InstallFest opted to use OpenConf (or another existing product) we would
>>
>> scrub the event planning project proposal to look for a customer whose
>> need
>> could not be satisfied by shopping.
>>
>> > - Possible platforms were discussed
>> > -- Java
>> > -- GNUe
>> > -- other web based tools like PHP
>> > -- To be decided after requirements are pinned down
>> > - Joseph took on the task of being the first leader of the project.
>>
>> Nevertheless, there was a marked preference for creating the event
>> management
>> project as a GNUe module, partly because event planning is often needed
>> by
>> businesses, and partly because event planning could draw on generic
>> ERM/P
>> functions like rolodex, human resources, inventory, finance, workflow,
>>
>> calendering, and project tools like Gannt and PERT.
>>
>> The concern was that GNUe might not be mature enough to actually support
>>
>> effective deployment of an event planning and management module.  It is
>>
>> desirable that Derek attend the 3 March meeting so that he can tell us
>> GNUe
>> can do this, can't do that, and won't be able to do the otherthing for
>>
>> another year or so.
>>
>> Furthermore, if the event planning does not pan out, then GNUe offers
>> obvious
>> room for PLUGdevel to pick up responsibility for a GNUe tool or
>> module.
>>
>> Also, my concern is that modules in GNUe must be written in Python.
>> There is
>> nothing wrong with Python, but it does not have a large market share.
>>
>> Working in Java might be worse for the project, but better for
>> resumes.
>>
>> > Intent and State
>> >
>> > The intent is to run it like a real project (since it is real) and do
>> a
>> > requirements document, design, technology selection, etc. before the
>> > coding starts.  Joseph and a core team can meet when they want and
>> > provide progress briefings at the meetings.  Some Devel Meetings may
>> be
>> > dedicated to working on the project as a means of getting work done
>> and
>> > teaching whatever techniques are currently being used.
>> >
>> > I have stepped back and would love to see several (many?) group
>> members
>> > step up and participate as each would like.  Joseph has the reigns
>> now
>> > and can proceed as he and the group see fit.  Even if we end up with
>> the
>> > minimum, something the coordinate InstallFests, we should be
>> learning
>> > much along the way.
>>
>> Joseph said something about starting with a team of 4 to 6 coders.  I do
>> not
>> know if that includes system and application administration (host
>> server,
>> version management software, project planning and management software,
>> and so
>> on).  If not then the project could include another couple of
>> participants.
>> So to start we are looking at a few to several, NOT many, especially
>> given
>> received wisdom about group dynamics in general and software project
>> management in particular.
>>
>> From Joseph's perspective a best case scenario is that he gets to pick
>> his
>> talent in a "buyers" market.
>>
>>
>> > There.  Any questions?
>> >
>> > Alan
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