I just realized, while 99% of the people on this list are honest there is
the diabolical 1%. So I guess I enter my password for the rest of my life.
Or do you think that it really matters considering this is only a mailing
list?
On Sat, Jun 29, 2024, 10:22 AM Michael <
bmike1@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for saying this. I realized that I only needed to run apt as root.
> I didn't know how to make it so I could do that..... but chatgt did!
>
> On Sat, Jun 29, 2024, 5:53 AM Eric Oyen via PLUG-discuss <
> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>
>> NO WORRIES FROM THIS END RUSTY.
>>
>> As a general rule, I use sudo only for very specific tasks (usually
>> updating my development package tree on OS X) and no where else will I run
>> anything as root. I have seen what happens to linux machines that run
>> infected binaries as root and it can get ugly pretty fast. In one case, I
>> couldn’t take the machine out of service because of other items I was
>> involved with, so I simply made part of the dir tree immutable after
>> replacing a few files in /etc. That would fill up the system logs with an
>> error message about a specific binary trying to replace a small number of
>> conf files. Once the offending binary was found, it made things easier
>> trying to disable it or get rid of it. However, after a while, I simply
>> pulled the drive and ran it through a Dod secure erase and installed a
>> newer linux bistro on it. I did use the same trick with chattr to make
>> /bin, /sbin and /etc immutable. That last turned out to be handy as I
>> caught someone trying to rootkit my machine using a known exploit, only
>> they couldn’t get it to run because the binaries they wanted to replace
>> couldn’t be written to. :)Yes, this would be a bit excessive, but over the
>> long run, proved far less inconvenient than having to wipe and reinstall an
>> OS.
>>
>> -Eric
>> From the central Offices of the Technomage Guild, security Applications
>> Dept.
>>
>>
>> > On Jun 28, 2024, at 6:43 PM, Rusty Carruth via PLUG-discuss <
>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > (Deep breath. Calm...)
>> >
>> > I can't figure out how to respond rationally to the below, so all I'm
>> going to say is - before you call troll, you might want to research the
>> author, and read a bit more carefully what they wrote. I don't believe I
>> recommended any of the crazy things you suggest. And I certainly didn't
>> intend to imply any of that.
>> >
>> > On the other hand, it may not have been clear, so I'll just say "Sorry
>> that what I wrote wasn't clear, but english isn't my first language.
>> Unfortunately its the only one I know".
>> >
>> > And on that note, I'll shut up.
>> >
>> > On 6/26/24 15:05, Ryan Petris wrote:
>> >> I feel like you're trolling so I'm not going to spend very much time
>> on this.
>> >>
>> >> It's been a generally good security practice for at least the last 25+
>> years to not regularly run as a privileged user, requiring some sort of
>> escalation to do administrative-type tasks. By using passwordless sudo,
>> you're taking away that escalation. Why not just run as root? Then you
>> don't need sudo at all. In fact, why even have a password at all? Why
>> encrypt? Why don't you just put all your data on a publicly accessible FTP
>> server and just grab stuff when you need it? The NSA has all your data
>> anyway and you don't have anything to hide so why not just leave it out
>> there for the world to see?
>> >>
>> >> As for something malicious needing to be written to use sudo, why
>> wouldn't it? sudo is ubiquitous on unix systems; if it didn't at least try
>> then that seams like a pretty dumb malicious script to me.
>> >>
>> >> You also don't necessarily need to open/run something for it to run.
>> IIRC there was a recent image vulnerability in Gnome's tracker-miner
>> application which indexes files in your home directory. And before you say
>> that wouldn't happen in KDE, it too has a similar program, I believe called
>> Baloo.
>> >>
>> >> There also exists the recent doas program and the systemd replacement
>> run0 to do the same.
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Jun 26, 2024, at 12:23 PM, Rusty Carruth via PLUG-discuss
>> wrote:
>> >>> Actually, I'd like to start a bit of a discussion on this.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> First, I know that for some reason RedHat seems to think that sudo is
>> >>> bad/insecure.
>> >>>
>> >>> I'd like to know the logic there, as I think the argument FOR using
>> sudo
>> >>> is MUCH stronger than any argument I've heard (which, admittedly, is
>> >>> pretty close to zero) AGAINST it. Here's my thinking:
>> >>>
>> >>> Allowing users to become root via sudo gives you:
>> >>>
>> >>> - VERY fine control over what programs a user can use as root
>> >>>
>> >>> - The ability to remove admin privs (ability to run as root) from an
>> >>> individual WITHOUT having to change root password everywhere.
>> >>>
>> >>> Now, remember, RH is supposedly 'corporate friendly'. As a
>> corporation,
>> >>> that 2nd feature is well worth the price of admission, PLUS I can only
>> >>> allow certain admins to run certain programs? Very nice.
>> >>>
>> >>> So, for example, at my last place I allowed the 'tester' user to run
>> >>> fdisk as root, because they needed to partition the disk under test.
>> In
>> >>> my case, and since the network that we ran on was totally isolated
>> from
>> >>> the corporate network, I let fdisk be run without needing a password.
>> >>> Oh, and if they messed up and fdisk'ed the boot partition, it was no
>> big
>> >>> deal - I could recreate the machine from scratch (minus whatever data
>> >>> hadn't been copied off yet - which would only be their most recent
>> run),
>> >>> in 10 minutes (which was about 2 minutes of my time, and 8 minutes of
>> >>> scripted 'dd' ;-) However, if the test user wanted to become root
>> using
>> >>> su, they had to enter the test user password.
>> >>>
>> >>> So, back to the original question - setting sudo to not require a
>> >>> password. We should have asked, what program do you want to run as
>> root
>> >>> without requiring a password? How secure is your system? What else do
>> >>> you use it for? Who has access? etc, etc, etc.
>> >>>
>> >>> There's one other minor objection I have to the 'zero defense'
>> statement
>> >>> below - the malicious thing you downloaded (and, I assume ran) has to
>> be
>> >>> written to USE sudo in its attempt to break in, I believe, or it
>> >>> wouldn't matter HOW open your sudo was. (simply saying 'su - myscript'
>> >>> won't do it).
>> >>>
>> >>> And, if you're truly paranoid about stuff you download, you should:
>> >>>
>> >>> 1 - NEVER download something you don't have an excellent reason to
>> >>> believe is 'safe', and ALWAYS make sure you actually downloaded it
>> from
>> >>> where you thought you did.
>> >>>
>> >>> 2 - For the TRULY paranoid, have a machine you use to download and
>> test
>> >>> software on, which you can totally disconnect from your network (not
>> >>> JUST the internet), and which has NO confidential info, and which you
>> >>> can erase and rebuild without caring. Run the downloaded stuff there,
>> >>> for a long time, until you're pretty sure it won't bite you.
>> >>>
>> >>> 3 - For the REALLY REALLY paranoid, don't download anything from
>> >>> anywhere, disconnect from the internet permanently, get high-tech
>> locks
>> >>> for your doors, and wrap your house in a faraday cage!
>> >>>
>> >>> And probably don't leave the house....
>> >>>
>> >>> The point of number 3 is that there is always a risk, even with
>> >>> 'well-known' software, and as someone else said - they're watching you
>> >>> anyway. The question is how 'safe' do you want to be? And how
>> paranoid
>> >>> are you, really?
>> >>>
>> >>> Wow, talk about rabbit hole! ;-)
>> >>>
>> >>> 'Let the flames begin!' :-)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 6/25/24 18:50, Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>> >>>>> wanted sudo not to require a password.
>> >>>> Please reconsider this... This is VERY BAD security practice.
>> There's basically zero defense if you happen to download/run something
>> malicious.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Tue, Jun 25, 2024, at 6:01 PM, Michael via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>> >>>>> then I remember that a PLUG member mentioned ChatGPT being good
>> at troubleshooting so I figured I'd give it a go. I sprint about half an
>> hour asking it the wrong question but after that it took 2 minutes. I
>> wanted sudo not to require a password. it is wonderful! now I don't have to
>> bug you guys. so it looks like this is the end of the user group unless you
>> want to talk about OT stuff.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
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