The time to ask for sources was 4 days ago, when I still had the
websites on my browser.
So I'll just say this: Get inside a car, in the summer sunlight, whose
windows and doors have been closed for a couple hours. It's hot. Really
hot. The light from the sun passed through the glass and heated the
seats and interior, heating them up. The heated surfaces emit a much
longer wavelength infrared, which is absorbed by the glass instead of
letting the longer infrared through. So a significant fraction of the
energy from the sun gets trapped in the car, heating it considerably.
We all learned that in high school physics. Here's a reference:
https://www.greenerchoices.org/how-does-a-greenhouse-work/
So the remaining question is, does C02 act like glass? Here are some
cites that say it does:
https://earthathome.org/quick-faqs/why-is-carbon-dioxide-called-a-greenhouse-gas/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-carbon-dioxide-is-greenhouse-gas/
Listen, I understand your need to look at science through the lens of
an agenda. The "I got mine, screw everyone else" attitude is quite
popular these days, causing people to grasp at straws when science
disagrees with their pet philosophy. But facts are facts, the more C02
we spew, the hotter Earth gets. And when it gets hot enough, it
releases the methane gas in the ocean:
https://worldoceanreview.com/en/wor-1/energy/methane-hydrates/
And with the released methane, all of a sudden it gets *a
lot* hotter. This has happened in some major extinction events:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1871174X16300488
Volcanos were the usual cause. But not this time.
If you don't believe my cites, find some of your own that aren't agenda
driven.
SteveT
Steve Litt
Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
Technologist
http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
Eric Oyen via PLUG-discuss said on Sun, 1 Aug 2021 14:17:30 -0700
>I was going to go into a long involved essay on this citing many facts
>and figures, but I won’t. You cited these numbers, now show your work
>with sources.
>
>Some of your figures don’t account for changes in population versus
>use by sector or total energy = total used + total wasted. It also
>doesn’t explain how China managed to use over 50% of the planetary
>supply of coal in 2020 (more than double that of the US for the same
>period) And that is just coal. (See the fortune article here:
>https://fortune.com/2021/03/29/china-coal-energy-electricity-xi-jinping-2020-ember/)
>and it also doesn’t properly explain energy efficiency taking into
>account usage by sector (see
>https://www.indy100.com/news/the-world-s-most-energy-efficient-countries-7334291
>). It also doesn’t account for changes in technology in the energy
>sector, in specific changes in technology in the transportation sector
>since 1965 (see
>https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/09/20190930-sivak.html) or
>changes in price per gallon of various fossil fuels since 1965 (see
>Cost of gas the year you were born | The State
><https://www.thestate.com/news/databases/article68603317.html>).
>
>Now, as for your other points, please show me hard data (in accessible
>format for the blind) over the last 30 years showing actual facts,
>verified data that isn’t cherry picked, padded or otherwise pulled out
>of thin air) on those points. Only then can we have a reasonable
>discussion. So far, you haven’t really shown much on those other
>points.
>
>SO, please, show your data and show your source that supports it.
>Talking points (regardless of political leaning) are just not
>acceptable.
>
>-Eric
>From the Central Offices of the Technomage Guild, Library Dept.
>
>
>> On Jul 28, 2021, at 1:13 AM, Steve Litt via PLUG-discuss
>> <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>
>> Eric Oyen via PLUG-discuss said on Tue, 27 Jul 2021 22:53:09 -0700
>>
>>> So, guys, nice little debate we all got snagged into here because of
>>> some state regulations that would prevent nearly 60 million people
>>> from owning technologies that would make their lives more
>>> convenient. Regulations put in place by politicians who know
>>> nothing of real science and are trying to kiss up to china. Now,
>>> where does that leave us?
>>
>> It leaves us with 60 million people who can't game quite as hard. Boo
>> hoo hoo.
>>
>> What's this fascination with China that you all have? China uses the
>> energy equivalent of 27,018 million barrels of oil for 1394 million
>> people, equalling 19.4 barrels per person. The US uses the
>> equivalent of 18,684 million barrels and has 328 million people,
>> equaling 56.9 barrels per person.
>>
>> So here's the question: If some country using almost triple the
>> energy per person than your country says *you* are the problem and
>> should cut, and they won't do squat until you cut, what would you
>> say to them?
>>
>> You ask where it leaves us. Hey, if you're 60 years old, it leaves
>> you having lived a pretty fun life. If you're 20 years old, it
>> leaves you with a very hard (and probably considerably
>> foreshortened) second half of your life. If you were just born
>> today, by the time you graduate college, the world will be rife with
>> climate refugees and water wars, and by the time you're 50, if you
>> last that long, the population decline will be brutal and pretty
>> universal except for the very rich. All because everybody in 2021
>> said the other guy should cut his emissions first.
>>
>> One more thing: Some friends of mine ran the numbers and according to
>> them the California computer energy standards aren't as strict as
>> those of the EU.
>>
>> I feel not a bit of sorrow for the 60 million potential gamers who
>> play at a slight disadvantage, if they play at all. I feel sorry for
>> their grandchildren.
>>
>> SteveT
>>
>> Steve Litt
>> Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the
>> Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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