Couple of replies/questions:
1) In 1986 I bought a Chevy Sprint. 3 cylinder, 1100CC, 5 speed that got
around 50mpg. It was fun to drive and was very zippy. Why was that car
a flash in the pan? Was it market forces or some not so natural force
that killed the 50mpg car? I tent to think it was both.
2) Is there really global warming? Or is this just a natural occurring
weather change? What caused the dust bowl? What about that Little Ice
Age - was that global warming? And this summer is like the summers we
had in the early 80's and before. Is this cooling global warming? What
about the statement that we only have 12 years.... that has been
repeated for many decades.
3) You said "...subsidies governments around the world give to Big Oil.
Is that true? Where do these subsidies come from? If that is true, I'd
like to know more. What I see is excessive taxes on fossil fuels. From
where I sit it seems the current administration is hostile towards
fossil fuels. Since oil is so important to our economy is is part of the
cost of everything I'd like it to be un-subsidies (if it is) and free of
tax - that would reduce the price of everything.
4) The jury is still out on electric cars and renewable energy. Where
does all this electricity come from? Coal burning plants? What about
the issues with wind? Texas last winter? What about all the used up
batteries? All of this stuff produces waste. We never hear about
waste.
5) I agree we need to become more energy efficient. And I believe this
is a process that may take 50 years.
6) We need to be honest. I think there are a lot of talking points that
are not true or accurate.
7) I own a 2009 Xterra. I get 14 to 19 MPG. Not very good. However I
home office and drive less every year. I get most everything delivered
to my door step. I bet I drive less that 100 miles per month so it
really does not matter.
8) Contrast my Xterra with a 2004 4 door 250 or 350 Ford 4x4 diesel that
can be upgraded with more powerful turbos that makes 400 - 500 horse
power that gets 19 MPG city and 21 highway. So what is really going on
here?
9) I am hoping to convert my house to full electric and put more solar
on my roof than I can use. I will stay on the grid because I do not
want to buy and expensive battery bank - Think of all that disposal...
Yikes.
10) I do not think I am being told the truth. Things like the Green New
Deal would be catastrophic for our economy. Advance things as we can.
Let thing progress naturally. Remember just because Elon Musk can build
a decent electric car the grid is not capable of dealing with a bunch of
electric car chargers.
11) I do not think we are having an honest debate. What I see is those
who want to advance the ball faster than should naturally occur. Get
out of the way and let the market work and innovation will occur. Think
cellular here. It took a long time to move from the old sack phone to
the smart phone but it happened and I think it happened pretty
naturally. Think Linux!!
On 2021-07-27 19:25, David Schwartz via PLUG-discuss wrote:
> These arguments seem as silly today as when gas cost 18 cents a gallon
> and people made fun of suggestions to consider making gas engines more
> efficient.
>
> My first car got around 8MPG. Here we are 50 years later and my
> car’s gas engine (a Prius hybrid) only gets 6x better mileage (48
> MPG).
>
> Meanwhile, room-sized computers back then that required dedicated HVAC
> systems to keep them cool, have gone from hot noisy power-sucking
> monsters to palm-sized devices thousands of times faster that let us
> video-call anybody anywhere in the world any time we want, and they
> run for 24+ hours off of a thin battery.
>
> I suspect that if we measure net watt-hours of power consumption per
> million CPU cycles they provide, we’d find today’s cell phones are
> the most power-efficient computers we’ve ever had, and they keep
> getting better. Cars … not so much.
>
> Batteries have not significantly changed throughout my life, probably
> because nobody ever believed it would be feasible to power something
> like a vehicle that went 400 miles on them. Or even an aircraft for
> that matter. (The Wright Brother’s first powered flight stayed aloft
> for 12 seconds and flew 120 feet.)
>
> I like to think that Elon Musk looked at that lack of innovation and
> said, “How can I create sufficient demand to make the evolution of
> battery technology take a quantum leap?” And the answer he came up
> with was, electric cars and battery-packs to store power from
> renewable energy sources. By extension, those vehicles can also act as
> battery-packs, since most of them are sitting unused most of the day.
> He did for the transportation industry what the transportation
> industry refused to do for itself. Why? Gas has always been way
> cheaper than it actually costs due to subsidies governments around the
> world give to Big Oil.
>
> Anyway, it’s good that we’re having this debate. FINALLY!
>
> I have solar panels on my house and I like to watch the app that shows
> power generation and consumption. It updates every 15 minutes are so,
> and I can tell when the A/C is running more steadily. The cooler it is
> inside, the more the A/C runs, but the less the refridgerator runs.
>
> It bugs the crap out of me that the guy who re-habbed this house
> didn’t put any insulation or dry-wall on the interior side of the
> block walls, and they pass through so much heat in the summer time
> that it’s absurd. The previous owners did a bathroom addition years
> ago, and they didn’t put any insulation in the walls of that either.
> So if I close that door, in about an hour it’s as hot in there as it
> is outside.
>
> It’s about time people start thinking about this stuff!
>
> I’ve worked remotely for most of the past 10 years. My employers
> have never reimbursed me (or even offered) for the additional power it
> takes to cool the house and power my computer equipment while I’m
> home during the day. Now the recent tax law changes don’t let us
> deduct these expenses as “non-reimbursed work expenses” on the
> assumption that if our employer thought they’re worthwhile, they’d
> happily reimburse us for them. Yeah, right.
>
> We’re having a severe drought here in the southwest. Yet Nestle is
> pumping millions of gallons of water out of the ground, putting it
> into non-biodegradable plastic containers, and shipping it
> out-of-state to places where it rains a lot.
>
> Chandler has a bunch of fabs and data centers that are suddenly asking
> for increases to their city water allotments. Their City Council is
> realizing that each of these “consumers” are sucking up around one
> million gallons of water PER DAY, PER FACILITY, out of our water table
> to cool their equipment, and just releasing it into the air.
>
> They’ve been told “no more water!” and if they need more,
> they’re going to have to start reclaiming it from the humid air
> they’re releasing to the environment. Nobody seems happy about it,
> but it’s clear our wasteful ways are starting to negatively impact
> our environment.
>
> If you’re feeling oppressed in this discussion, you should review
> “Tragedy of the Commons”.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSuETYEgY68 [2]
>
> -David Schwartz
>
>> On Jul 27, 2021, at 4:25 PM, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss
>> <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>
>> All this stuff is funny!! My first computer was a Commodore 64. I
>> think it was named that because it had 64k of RAM.... Remember that
>> one could be extended with a tape drive and or flappy. I'm not sure
>> if I had a flappy....
>>
>> Around that time I went into a business that was using a Commodore
>> 64. Maybe that is all we needed?
>>
>> I do not recall the Gov regulating it because of all the power it
>> had for that period.....
>>
>> The next year I bought a garage clone that had a 8088 - 8 bit CPU
>> and 1MB of RAM of which 640k was addressable. Yikes what a power
>> hungry beast...
>>
>> On 2021-07-27 15:04, Aaron Jones via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>> Those are some dangerous statements.
>>
> https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/05/06/chinas-greenhouse-gas-emissions-exceed-us-developed-world-report.html
>> [1]
>> If you think little Johnny playing fort nite is going to be the
>> deciding factor versus China producing more pollution than all other
>> developed nations combined I would disagree. But if you are war
>> hawking here and trying to bait us into a pollution debate so you
>> can
>> get everyone to do the whole “war with China thing…” then you
>> got my reply and I admit I got baited.
>> On Jul 27, 2021, at 2:58 PM, Steve Litt via PLUG-discuss
>> <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>> greg zegan via PLUG-discuss said on Tue, 27 Jul 2021 14:16:27
>> +0000
>> (UTC)
>
> https://www.zerohedge.com/political/59-million-americans-prohibited-buying-high-end-dell-gaming-pcs
>
>>>
>> Allow me to change the headline of this article to...
>> "Six States Responsible Enough to Limit Computer Power Consumption"
>> Anyone prioritizing their video game performance over the
>> starvation,
>> water wars, crop failures, climate refugees, underwater cities,
>> deserts
>> replacing farmland, and normalization of cat 5 hurricanes that will
>> surely come if we don't handle this situation correctly, is an
>> ethical
>> cripple.
>> And anyone, who just has to have that superburner computer, of an
>> age
>> not likely to live until 2060 is just borrowing on a future they
>> know
>> they won't repay.
>> And it's not like you can't wait 4 years and have a computer using a
>> couple hundred wats that performs like today's 1000 watt gargantuan.
>> SteveT
>> Steve Litt
>> Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the
>> Successful
>> Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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