You're right, java still finds infection a home in medical a lot, probably
due to the flexibility and interfaces available, but I have never met an
actual clinical person that likes their Oracle-based Java Billing or EMR
software, and I've worked on several hospitals over the years with them.
Same with banking, finance, trading, insurance, various industries, the
software is just always sort of quirky at best, slow/unusable/broken at
worst. As a backend process, probably not bad, but definitely better not
seen or interacted with as any sort of UI.
I figure some devs have to love the ugly baby in the org still, somewhere
the software is filling a need. Or no one wants to own up that it doesn't
after such a huge over-budget dev cost, also which I usually see with any
Oracle/Java project. Thankfully I'm usually the infrastructure/network
side, not the software, but I see the pain that comes with every personal
experience in an enterprise implementation of it. Java apps make me glad I
didn't become a developer.
Definitely mean no offense to the java dev's out there, I know lots I
respect over the years, but I do enjoy giving them hell over their choices.
-mb
On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 9:01 AM Ed via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
> Flash is dead, and Java isn't a zombie, it is a Godzilla.
>
> And if you want to see a mess, try running $3B in claims through a
> javascript web app. ;)
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 8:53 AM Ed <plug@0x1b.com> wrote:
> >
> > Oracle has begun to monetize it's distribution of Java - it should be
> > considered commercial and will trigger licensing if used for business.
> > Java 8 is the last free to use Java from Oracle that we could deploy
> > at work(policy policy policy compatibility vendor vendor habit ack!)
> > In addition, Oracle no longer pre-packages a JRE in their
> > distributions, javatools is also missing I think. The thinking is that
> > as a commercial user, you need a custom JRE for your application. $$$
> >
> > The drop in replacement, as mentioned by Joseph, is
> > https://adoptopenjdk.net and is what you should be using. Remember
> > java may have several environment variables that if they get out of
> > sync, will cause you problems at run time. It is best to clean up and
> > retire old unused versions and if you need to switch from one to
> > another, embed those changes in scripts.
> >
> > The Oracle version of JavaEE is no more. It is now Jacarta EE and can
> > be found at https://jakarta.ee/ and is run out of the Eclipse
> > foundation.
> >
> > I think both Java projects are still burdened by the semi-free license
> > chosen by Sun, but are now free of Oracle.
> >
> > Java has had a tremendous diversity of deployments and options and
> > specialized applications, much of which has been slowly unsupported
> > and disappeard under Oracles ownership. If you depend on an old
> > version of java with these features, don't lose that version - I don't
> > expect the old lost stuff to come back, it is in the rear view mirror.
> > Current development is trying to catch up with all the concepts
> > brought up by containerization. And others, it's still a huge rapidly
> > developing project. see "now free of Oracle"
> >
> > If your project can be considered in any way industrial or
> > institutional, no other language has a similarly supporting
> > environment. That said, there are easier languages to develop in today
> > and others are more fashionable and many of the distributed and
> > containerized paradigms are a stretch for java. Of course many of
> > those same paradigms are implemented in java, so go figure...
> >
> > Good luck, have fun - use https://adoptopenjdk.net
> >
> > On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 8:02 AM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss
> > <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'll stand corrected with the versions of java, it's obviously not my
> thing, but simply put, I've never *ever* had openjdk work properly for
> anything Java that wasn't specifically built in openjdk. I just don't
> bother with it usually as most everything is typically built/tested around
> Oracle and Oracle only.
> > >
> > > This proved itself true last week firing up JBidwatcher on this
> system, only had openjdk, and wouldn't even launch with it. I had to put
> oracle java on it to work still.
> > >
> > > Most enterprise java apps I have seen in use in businesses require
> specific, usually outdated/insecure versions, never get updates because
> they break the apps, and rarely work on anything but the platforms they
> were built on, so I call bullocks on the compatibility play. It sounds
> great in theory, but every practical application I've seen in use in
> enterprise ended up a bloody mess.
> > >
> > > Much like Flash now, it's just a zombie that won't die, but should
> imho.
> > >
> > > -mb
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 10:33 PM Joseph Sinclair via PLUG-discuss <
> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Sorry, Michael, but this is complete bunk.
> > >>
> > >> On 2020-05-04 11:29 AM, Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss wrote:
> > >> > Again OpenJDK and OracleJRE are totally different - including
> version
> > >> > numbers. If someone says "works with Java 8", they 99.9% of the
> time mean
> > >> > OracleJRE and their versions, and theirs only.
> > >>
> > >> Oracle JRE or JDK is a repackaged OpenJDK build, and nothing more.
> The version numbers are identical. The code is identical. The build
> process is identical. The only thing you get with Oracle builds is the
> *option* to pay for Oracle commercial support.
> > >> In fact, any package in any Linux distro labeled OpenJDK is generally
> a packaging of the Oracle build, which is why OpenJDK 8 builds are no
> longer available easily, as Oracle pulled Java 8 to commercial-only support
> last year.
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > OpenJDK is only ever used with, well, I don't even know anymore, as
> > >> > everyone Open Source moved on to hate Java, Oracle, Larry Ellison,
> etc.
> > >> OpenJDK is, and has always been Open under GPL3
> > >> If you want fully open and community (or commercial from not-Oracle)
> builds of any recent Java version (8+) you can get those from
> adoptopenjdk.org, which is a consortium of large and small companies that
> are supporting continued open access to the GPL3 source code and builds of
> the Java system.
> > >> A huge amount of the internet is running OpenJDK, and a vast array of
> systems are transitioning to the adoptopenjdk builds simply to ensure
> continued access to support from multiple vendors.
> > >>
> > >> > You can pretty safely remove/forget OpenJDK as an end-user at this
> point I
> > >> > think, unless something specifically mentions needing it.
> > >> If you're running Linux, and you need Java, you should be installing
> the OpenJDK package from your distribution, if nothing else to ensure
> continued and frequent updates along with the rest of the system.
> > >> If there is an option for adoptopenjdk for those packages, that's a
> good choice, but the builds from the distribution for Java are made from
> the official codebase that underpins all builds, including Oracle's.
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > -mb
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> Joseph Sinclair
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 11:24 AM Michael <bmike1@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> Thanks for the tip!
> > >> >> So then looking at it it looks as if I have Java 11 installed. Is
> that
> > >> >> correct?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> apt search oracle jre
> > >> >> ...
> > >> >> i openjdk-11-jre - OpenJDK
> > >> >> Java runtime, using Hotspot JIT
> > >> >> p openjdk-11-jre:i386 - OpenJDK
> > >> >> Java runtime, using Hotspot JIT
> > >> >> p openjdk-11-jre-dcevm -
> Alternative
> > >> >> VM for OpenJDK 11 with enhanced class redefinition
> > >> >> p openjdk-11-jre-dcevm:i386 -
> Alternative
> > >> >> VM for OpenJDK 11 with enhanced class redefinition
> > >> >> i openjdk-11-jre-headless - OpenJDK
> > >> >> Java runtime, using Hotspot JIT (headless)
> > >> >> p openjdk-11-jre-headless:i386 - OpenJDK
> > >> >> Java runtime, using Hotspot JIT (headless)
> > >> >> p openjdk-11-jre-zero -
> Alternative
> > >> >> JVM for OpenJDK, using Zero
> > >> >> p openjdk-11-jre-zero:i386 -
> Alternative
> > >> >> JVM for OpenJDK, using Zero
> > >> >> p openjdk-8-jre - OpenJDK
> > >> >> Java runtime, using Hotspot JIT
> > >> >> p openjdk-8-jre:i386 - OpenJDK
> > >> >> Java runtime, using Hotspot JIT
> > >> >> p openjdk-8-jre-dcevm -
> Alternative
> > >> >> VM for OpenJDK 8 with enhanced class redefinition
> > >> >> p openjdk-8-jre-dcevm:i386 -
> Alternative
> > >> >> VM for OpenJDK 8 with enhanced class redefinition
> > >> >> p openjdk-8-jre-headless - OpenJDK
> > >> >> Java runtime, using Hotspot JIT (headless)
> > >> >> p openjdk-8-jre-headless:i386 - OpenJDK
> > >> >> Java runtime, using Hotspot JIT (headless)
> > >> >> p openjdk-8-jre-zero -
> Alternative
> > >> >> JVM for OpenJDK, using Zero/Shark
> > >> >> p openjdk-8-jre-zero:i386 -
> Alternative
> > >> >> JVM for OpenJDK, using Zero/Shark
> > >> >> p spamoracle -
> statistical
> > >> >> analysis spam filter based on Bayes' formula
> > >> >> p spamoracle:i386 -
> statistical
> > >> >> analysis spam filter based on Bayes' formula
> > >> >> v spamoracle-byte -
> > >> >> v spamoracle-byte:i386 -
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 2:12 PM Michael Butash <michael@butash.net>
> wrote:
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> OpenJDK and Oracle JRE are two very different beasts. Most java
> > >> >> software is developed against Oracle Java, and if so, rarely I
> find they
> > >> >> ever work on OpenJDK.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Look up switching to "oracle jre" on your system, Java 8 as they
> want.
> > >> >> I had to figure this out on my arch system recently, ubuntu should
> just
> > >> >> have to install it, and switch the system to use it, just forget
> how now.
> > >> >> If nothing else, start with "apt search oracle jre".
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Nothing Java ever amounts to any good I've found after ~20 years
> of it,
> > >> >> I try to use Java as little as possible, scorning any software and
> hardware
> > >> >> (ahem, Cisco) that uses it still. Anything Java behaves badly
> under linux
> > >> >> for me, and the only thing java app I suffer is JBidwatcher for
> ebay
> > >> >> sniping deals. It behaves badly, randomly, but still the only
> darn thing I
> > >> >> can find like it free.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> -mb
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 9:50 AM Michael via PLUG-discuss <
> > >> >> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> I want to download a program, ImageJ. I went to the download
> page and
> > >> >> see:
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> Unfortunately, due to the ongoing transition from Java 6 to Java
> 8,
> > >> >>>> this download of "plain ImageJ2" cannot currently be updated to
> the
> > >> >>>> latest Java-8-compatible version. See the Java 8 page for
> details. For
> > >> >>>> the time being, we recommend using the Fiji distribution of
> ImageJ to
> > >> >>>> stay current with updates.
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> Curious as to what version of Java I have....
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> ~$ java -version
> > >> >>>> openjdk version "11.0.7" 2020-04-14
> > >> >>>> OpenJDK Runtime Environment (build
> 11.0.7+10-post-Ubuntu-2ubuntu218.04)
> > >> >>>> OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build
> 11.0.7+10-post-Ubuntu-2ubuntu218.04,
> > >> >>>> mixed mode, sharing)
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> So they are a bit behind?
> > >> >>>> --
> > >> >>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
> > >> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------
> > >> >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
> > >> >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> > >> >>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> --
> > >> >> :-)~MIKE~(-:
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------
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> > >> >
> > >>
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