On 2016-12-12 13:14, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Dec 2016 09:32:39 -0700
> Keith Smith <techlists@phpcoderusa.com> wrote:
>
>
>> I was thinking about this over the weekend. Here is what I came up
>> with. Raise the minimum wage to $15/hr and ensure all other parts of
>> the economy will stay in check, such as no loss of jobs and no
>> inflation.
>
> If I had the power to do this type of thing, I think I could raise the
> minimum wage to $12/hr without serious side effects like those you
> mention.
>
>>
>> Then make sure I'm the guy at U-Haul that takes care of the rental
>> returns. Give my wife the same job. My wife and I would work that
>> job until we are 70. I'd love that. No stress, no hassle, no
>> leaning new technology. I could BBQ more often. Camp more often and
>> just enjoy life. I'm all for it. Can you arrange it?
>
> I think so. Obviously you and your wife would need to live very
> frugally, but BBQ and camping are pretty cheap. Also, it's obvious that
> I couldn't guarantee you U-Haul exactly, but some form of
> rental/leasing paperwork for $12/hr.
>
No more frugal than we now live.
>>
>> Here is the down side. I would not be forced to grow, learn and
>> contribute.
>
> This is true. You could continue to live just like you always did, and
> contribute nothing. Because you wouldn't be forced to do so. You also
> would not be forced NOT to, and I have a feeling you and your wife
> would grow, learn and contribute, outside of your profession. Because
> that's who you are. It's even possible that, freed from the monthly
> scrabble to meet the budget, you might grow, learn and contribute more.
>
No one can force anyone to do anything. I would be retired on the job.
And I think others would also.
>> As a Christian I believe God has given each of us unique
>> talents and skills.
>
> This is obvious from simple observation.
>
>> These talents and skills are for us to make a
>> living and for making the community better. God requires that of us,
>> not the government.
>
> Yes. And I think God takes the broader perspective that improving the
> community needn't be linked to how you get your food. Jesus' major
> contribution wasn't carpentry/construction/crafting. His day job gave
> him the time and ability to persue his real talent.
Redeeming us.
>
> There's no telling the benefit of a $12/hr minimum wage's release of
> creativity among the masses. Perhaps, as a whole, our gifts of talent
> and skill would be magnified by a $12/hr minimum wage.
>
I find this an odd statement. One who needs the government to create a
minimum wage will then became productive and rise above the ashes?
Interesting thought.
Maybe the whole idea is struggle and how we deal with it. And if you
remove it there is not need for me to reach my hand out to help someone
else. I can go watch T.V. or do something meaningless.
>>
>> By messing with the market's equilibrium, you mess with a God made
>> system. Man is fallible and government is even more fallible.
>
> Well yeah, but remember, God gave us brains sufficient to mess with
> systems. Brains sufficient to wipe out smallpox. Smallpox was made by
> God but apparently not endorsed by God. We messed with God's system
> when we cured Polio and Leprosy. Could it be that God is testing us so
> that we pick the right God given systems to mess with?
>
He gave us brains so we can ask Him for wisdom, formulate a plan, get
moving and look to God for His blessings. And when he blesses us to
give him all the glory.
>>
>> In the above $15/hr example my wife who is a nurse would quit her job
>> and I would quit struggling with technology. My wife and I would lose
>> our desire to find what we are good at and we would lose our desire
>> to use our God given talent to better our community.
>
> Or, perhaps, with her basic needs met, your wife would start a nursing
> system for those locked out of our healthcare system.
Who is locked out? There is free healthcare for the indigent,
subsidized healthcare for the working poor, and very expensive
healthcare of the working class.
The only person locked out of healthcare is people like me. ObamaCare
might be upwards of $1800 a month, with a $6200 per person / per year
deductible. My wife has to work so we can have healthcare and at that it
cost us $550/month or or $6600 a year.
And if you find yourself down and out there is the ER. No one is
blocked out except the entrepreneur.
In 1980 I receiver 2 sutures at the ER at a cost of $35. Today that
would cost me $5000 or more to go to the ER for the same procedure.
What has changed? And how do we fix it?
Perhaps you would
> put aside programming, and do that one thing you always really wanted
> to do, and do it well enough to benefit society.
No need. I am retired on the job. Struggle is over. Society does not
need me.
>
>>
>> Struggle is good.
>
> That's true, as any history book shows.
>
>> Struggle creates change.
>
> That's not only true but obvious.
>
>> What I see is some want
>> to make things perfect. I say let us feel the pain, let us struggle
>> so we are strong.
>
> Me too, although I'd characterize it more as desire than pain. The most
> successful people weren't those in real, unending pain. They were
> people who envisioned something better, and followed their desire to
> follow through.
>
>> I keep hearing about all these stats and how my
>> experience is anecdotal, that my total life experience and watching
>> those around me is anecdotal. I must be some kind of freak. I must
>> not have live an American life.
>
> Nobody said that. Your life story is fairly typical of your age.
> Statistics take into account the people born later.
>
>>
>> Remember failure is a good thing. History is full of failure that led
>> to success. Failure is a great teacher. Once we stop failing we
>> stop being successful.
>
> Yes.
>
>>
>> It is up to us the people not the government. Government should only
>> be in place to protect the rights of the people and minimum wage is
>> not a right. Owning a home is not a right. Health insurance is not
>> a right. Life, Liberty, and The Pursuit of Happiness are rights.
>
> Let me ask you this: If the minimum wage were repealed (as suggested 20
> or so posts ago), and for some professions
You mean fast food? Who is actually paid minimum wage? Literally no
one in chandler.
> pay goes down to the point
> where shelter is unaffordable, to what degree can a born-poor person
> pursue happiness sleeping all night in the rain and snow, then working
> for enough money to afford a loaf of bread and a few hot dogs?
You mean the homes veterans I used to run into when I was a police
officer? Or the wino? Those were the homeless ones. In 9 years I was
never told that someone was homeless because of not being able to make a
living. Granted a few find themselves homeless because of a bad streak,
however most are self medicating with drugs or booze. I know anecdotal.
Disclaimer : I do not want anyone to be homeless or denied their basic
needs. Again this is a community issue not a government issue.
> Now
> contemplate the degree of happiness pursuit accorded to which a person
> whose parents put him through college to get a decent job that yields
> food, clothing and shelter. Did our constitution really mean degrees of
> happiness pursuit should be based in great part on accident of birth?
> Can we not make a few additional tweaks to more fully implement life,
> liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
The tweaks are already in. Too poor to pay for college? Joint the
Marines like I did and they might even give you a skill that you can use
when you get out and a couple times on your resume to help you get a
job. Then you can use your GI Bill to go to college and buy a house.
And some government jobs give extra credit for being a vet.
If someone wants to go to school they can do it. Funny my best bud in
the USMC went to school on the GI Bill. He put his kids through
college. Our mindset has changed. One of my friends has acquired debt
and several others have drained their savings. We are doing a
disservice to this generation.
My father told me to go to college to have a better life. Thank him for
that. I did ALL the rest. No help from anyone.
The problem is everyone wants it given to them.
Interestingly enough the Bible says in 2 Thessalonians 3:10:10 For even
when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling
to work shall not eat.”
It says unwilling, not unable. God expects us to work, be self reliant
and to look to God to bless our work.
>
>> Now having said that it is up to each of us to help make our
>> community better by helping those in our community do better or to
>> help them up when they have fallen.
>
> Yes! I'm proud to have received many emails from readers of my books,
> thanking me for improving their careers. I've always believed on a
> personal level that if I'm not part of the solution, I'm part of the
> problem.
>
>>
>> It is you and I that are failing and we make it worse by delegating
>> our responsibilities to the government.
>
> You sure you're failing? Looks like you're doing just fine to me. Far
> as I know I'm not failing. I'm not looking to the government to pull
> *me* up, I'm looking to the government to pull up those who are
> temporarily down.
>
I did not say I was failing. The community is failing. And that
includes the church (little c).
>>
>> We need to take responsibility. Don't like businesses that pay low
>> wages, don't buy their goods and services. I'll bet not one of you
>> that support raising the minimum wage will stop buying Walmart.
>
> You're right. I buy almost nothing at Walmart because of how they treat
> their employees, how they dump their employees' welfare on the state,
> and how they put local businesses out of business. I understand that
> some of my "made in America" policies will mean I pay $2000 for a
> computer that costs me $500 right now, and that's well worth the cost
> to me. But of course I'm not going to be paying $2K while everyone else
> is continuing the problem by buying the $500 foreign computer. This is
> one place where government regulation is needed.
>
I gave up that fight long ago. I subsidize the workers as Walmart so I
shop there to get some of my money back. When there is enough people
willing to stand up I will join in. I am not a martyr.
>>
>> I will stand up against injustice with you, however YOU must be
>> willing to stand up and pay the price.
>
> Truer words have never been spoken.
>
>> If not do not ask me to
>> sacrifice.
>
> I envision very little sacrifice on your part if the minimum wage is
> raised to $12/hr.
>
Still asking me to sacrifice. This is how it works. Hey buddy can we
get just a couple more bucks from you so we can do X?
Lets see what I pay taxes on
- Home
- food
- gas
- electric
- car at purchase
- car registration
- car repair
- gas for car (lots of tax on this)
- anything retail
- cellular phone and service
- Internet and land line phone
I am taxed on everything. I subsidize others ObamaCare while I get to
pay full price.
And now you want me to subsidize minimum wage workers. WOW!!
Where and when will this merry go round stop? At some point I my check
out.
Like I said, a small portion of people earn minimum wage. And of them a
much smaller portion are not just passing through. AND if you can
arrange that U-Haul job at $15/hr for my wife and I, we would appreciate
it. We are ready to checkout.
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> December 2016 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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--
Keith Smith
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