Not sure if you're trying to flame bait me John J. but whatever :)
-- JD Austin
Voice: 480.269.4335 (480 2MY Geek)
jd@twingeckos.com
On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 10:33 AM, John J. Macey <
jjmacey@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jd,
>
> I think your thinking is out dated. And, specious. From 10+ years ago
> <https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEFA9F546C9975EDD>.
>
> I find it amazing, that no one here will post their personal Blog /
> Website address.
>
> I agree with Lisa, all the way.
> [image: Image]
>
> John J. Macey / Wildwood, New Jersey
> 480-242-1503/ jjmacey@jjmacey.net
>
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> 623-252-1441 / Fax: 623-252-1441
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> On 12/02/2014 12:20 PM, JD Austin wrote:
>
> I'm a lurker on this list and haven't had time to go to an actual plug
> meeting in years so take my input as you may... that said PLUG should take
> these issues seriously because these are the kinds of issues that tear
> apart organizations.
>
> When people take the time to cite specific examples and tell you that they
> feel a negative bias towards them the wrong response is to deny their
> feelings are valid. A major problem most clubs/organizations have unless
> they make a concerted effort not to be is that overtime they get cliquish
> and non-inclusive; unless an effort is made not to do so long time members
> start to feel and act as if it is their organization and can seem like
> dictators to new people. I haven't been involved enough in PLUG to know if
> that is happening here but the emails flying around right now make it sound
> like it could be that way. I've seen these kinds of issues destroy groups
> before; I'm sure I'm not the only person that has no desire to be a group
> that discriminates against women or any other body of people.
> Linux is for everyone and has the most diversity of any operating system I
> know.
>
>
> -- JD Austin
> Voice: 480.269.4335 (480 2MY Geek)
> jd@twingeckos.com
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 9:38 AM, Kaoru Wilbur <m.kaoru.wilbur@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Definitely! Thanks for that.
>>
>> When asked what I would do with my pi, I mentioned I was going to do a
>> Tor Relay. One member looked at me, laughed and said, Good luck with that.
>>
>> Another time, I was assisting someone with an install. The idiot next to
>> me was flinching twitching and making grunting noises.
>> Finally, I turned off the machine and said, "And what would you do?!"
>> He made a suggestion which was what I actually had done already.
>> The woman who I was assisting even said, "Isn't that what you were doing"
>>
>> Another incident was when I stated that one member of the installfests
>> was rude and if Todd didn't take care of that, I would. I was accused of
>> threatening this member when I was simply stating in front of a group of
>> people that Mark was a rude arrogant problem that needed to be dealt with.
>>
>> Now, maybe, it's just Todd. However, I went to leadership who did
>> nothing until I started making noise at a higher level. The noise wasn't
>> even about the gender bias but the push on Ubuntu and the treatment of
>> members.
>> Incidentally, when I went to local leadership, he acted as if I were
>> lying before any investigation.
>>
>> Women come to your meetings and then leave. Maybe the general
>> population of the group do not realize why because so many people come and
>> go from the PLUG. Maybe people think women cannot handle the content or
>> that they are leaving because of other reasons.
>>
>> I was all but pushed out of your old boys club. In fact, Todd stated he
>> didn't want me at the installfests. Was that because I was insisting on
>> positive change or because I was female. You tell me? He laughed at me
>> several times. Of course, he was not that nice to other members either. I
>> never noticed him condescend to any of the males though.
>>
>> There is gender bias. Maybe not at your local meetings because it's
>> just ALL LECTURE.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 8:41 AM, Shawn Badger <shawn@badger.pro> wrote:
>>
>>> I have been in the PLUG for a while now and have not seen any gender
>>> bias.
>>> Can you point to any examples of how the group is gender biased so the
>>> group can work on those issues?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 12:33 AM, Kaoru Wilbur <m.kaoru.wilbur@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> hans,
>>>>
>>>> I am sorry you cannot take a joke.
>>>> Of course, sexual harassment is no joking matter.
>>>> Accusations of this are quite serious.
>>>>
>>>> I never witnessed anything or experienced sexual harassment.
>>>>
>>>> Gender bias is quite obvious in your LUG.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 10:44 PM, der.hans <PLUGd@lufthans.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Am 01. Dez, 2014 schwätzte Kaoru Wilbur so:
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, this was an interesting thread.
>>>>>> I would like to chime in here for a moment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While I have not experienced unwanted sexually advances by anyone at
>>>>>> PLUG
>>>>>> in recent years, I will state there is a gender bias, definitely.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some people may not experience this gender bias because, well
>>>>>> frankly, we
>>>>>> are unsure of your gender...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's uncalled for, especially right as you're claiming there is
>>>>> gender bias.
>>>>>
>>>>> All joking aside, as a community, we really could be a little more
>>>>>> thoughtful, tactful and less like assholes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Most of us do a good job. Over the years there have only been problems
>>>>> with a few people. Most adjust their behavior when it's pointed out.
>>>>>
>>>>> ciao,
>>>>>
>>>>> der.hans
>>>>> --
>>>>> # http://www.LuftHans.com/ http://www.PhxLinux.org/
>>>>> # "Every person who has mastered a profession is a skeptic concerning
>>>>> # it." -- George Bernard Shaw
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