Alan,
Thanks for piping in with this excellent "new" slant on an old controversy.
On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 10:43 PM, Alan Dayley <
adayley@gmail.com> wrote:
> This has been an interesting discussion. And it is an old one. I was
> active in the PLUG Steering Committee for about nine years, I think. We had
> similar discussions several times in those years and several times since.
>
> In my opinion little has changed in all this time to address any thoughts
> about expansion, improvement of membership numbers, membership quality or
> participation. And little has changed about how the group operates,
> governs, decides direction, etc. Makes sense:
>
> "If you keep on doing what you've always done, you'll keep on getting what
> you've always got." -- W. L. Bateman
>
> IF PLUG is happy with being a small group that meets a few times a month
> and has decent email lists, the current structure and governance supports
> that. It has supported that for many years. And choosing to be that sort of
> a group is a valid choice. Carry on.
>
I believe that PLUG will be required to make some of these changes as the
result of this discourse (and at the very least take your 9 years
experienced recommendations.
>
> I don't know that Lisa's ideas are the "right" direction that The Group
> might want to go. I am, however, of the strong opinion that IF PLUG wants
> to remain relevant and IF PLUG wants to grow and do bigger, exciting
> things, PLUG needs to change such that those different things can be
> supported and created. I suggested a Business Model Canvas as just one way
> to converse about the reasons for a possible change and to guide a
> direction to such goals.
>
I am very much in agreement that this would be a good place to start.
>
> A local example of an amazing, growing community that exemplifies a
> "Do-ocracy" (http://www.communitywiki.org/DoOcracy) is Heat Sync Labs (
> http://www.heatsynclabs.org/). If PLUG wants to change, their example
> might be one to glean ideas for possible adoption and adaption toward
> whatever the change goals might be.
>
So from the post, these are the basic types of group organization:
Contrast
- *Democracy*. In a democracy, everyone has a say in what gets done. In
a do-ocracy, everyone does jobs that they think need to be done, without
everyone’s input.
- *Meritocracy*. In a meritocracy, the most qualified people for a job
are selected for that job. In a do-ocracy, whoever does the job gets it, no
matter how well they’re qualified.
In the 501c3 Non profit status project, who was selected? Why not? Why
did the PLUG not have voting on this big issue after it was determined that
adequate resources or volunteer funds (which my proposal to Hans included
providing for)?
In both a Meritocracy or Democracy the users VOTE on big issues in
something more than 1 "secret society" meeting that occurs on a day some
cannot attend. Meeting minutes are recorded and occur in speech to text
format for all to review where important issues exist. Remote attendance
tools like webex sessions are provided for users who can't attend,
especially where big events are discussed or put to users to VOTE on.
> Having said all that I will say a few more things.
>
> - PLUG is one of THE BEST behaved and helpful groups I have ever had
> the privilege of participating with. This remains true over the past
> several years that I have lurked and experienced even more groups and
> organizations than before I became mostly a lurker.
>
I agree. Part of being a good LUG includes such structure and human
bandwidth analysis and constraints, and especially changes where such
discourse identifies limitations.
>
> - That PLUG is still active and providing great information and service is
> a testament to the efforts and values of it's members and leaders.
>
> - PLUG, as it currently exists, is something great to have in Phoenix. If
> it doesn't grow, change, expand or whatever, it is still awesome.
>
As always, well said, Alan!
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 8:50 PM, keith smith <klsmith2020@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Boy did I get my money's worth. All I wanted to know was if there was a
>> migration away from the list, mainly AZPHP. I got one education!!
>>
>> Thanks!!
>>
>> ------------------------
>> Keith Smith
>>
>> --- On *Tue, 5/7/13, Lisa Kachold <lisakachold@obnosis.com>* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Lisa Kachold <lisakachold@obnosis.com>
>>
>> Subject: Re: How to promote Plug's value - was: Are Social Networks ...
>> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org>
>> Date: Tuesday, May 7, 2013, 8:07 PM
>>
>>
>> Brian,
>>
>> You failed to, in an open source type discussion, address my questions in
>> line repeatedly. Go to Gnome or Kernel Development or Fedora, or Redhat
>> listservers and questions are posed and answered.
>>
>> Our listservers are made for such open discussion. Our charter as a LUG
>> demands it.
>>
>> Our structure should be documented and discussed when someone brings
>> forth such questions IN PRINT. People who cannot attend a meeting (like
>> me) due to schedule or other commitments, have questions. If any of my
>> questions and statements are wrong; the listserver and email format
>> provides for COMMUNITY DISCOURSE.
>>
>> Is this a secret society? You can't point me to a place that addresses
>> who does what, how officers are elected, and steering committee members
>> assigned, or projects accepted. AND if one HAS to come to a once a month
>> meeting in order to interact with that process, again, we are failing our
>> mission with Open Source LUG for this community.
>>
>> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 7:50 PM, Brian Cluff <brian@snaptek.com<http://mc/compose?to=brian@snaptek.com>
>> > wrote:
>>
>> This is the last thing I will say on this subject. Lisa, You don't know
>> what you are talking about. You are throwing wild accusations around that
>> have no basis in fact.
>>
>> PLUG is a meritocracy, plain and simple. Hans does not and never has
>> appointed anyone to the steering committee.
>>
>> Are the steering committee posted on the website, no, but it's hardly a
>> secret who they are when the person MCing the meeting introduces the
>> steering entire committee most every month.
>>
>> What you are doing is some really terrible arm chair quarterbacking, that
>> is amounting to wondering why people aren't tackling each other while
>> watching a basketball game. The only reason I ever replied to any of your
>> posts is so that I didn't leave your opinion hanging out there where people
>> might think that what you are saying is based on facts... it's not. (It
>> seems to be based on some beef with Hans, if anything)
>>
>> Please come and join us for a few meetings and find out how things really
>> work. If you want to participate in decisions about PLUG, we have an open
>> meeting every month before the PLUG meeting, starting at 6pm. We also have
>> a mailing list devoted to planning plug events that we coordinate actions
>> between meetings. We often times have meetings before and/or after
>> Stammtiche, but they are on an as needed basis and are almost always
>> announced widely when we have them.
>>
>> Brian Cluff
>>
>>
>> <snip> trimmed.
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