Re: Has Anyone Used OwnCloud?

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Author: Crawford Rainwater
Date:  
To: plug-discuss
Subject: Re: Has Anyone Used OwnCloud?
Mark and company:

My apologies for the delay. I receive the PLUG list in Digest format to save on being flooded by emails daily. ;-)

YMMV on the data transfer since it is dependent on the usual suspects (e.g., bandwidth to/from and backend of the ownCloud hosted system). If one were to optimized as much as possible the back end, it should be relative decent for an Open Source and free (as in "free beer") product since bandwidth to/from client and server will vary.

One aspect that I would like to see is WebDAV to SabreDAV API so that other tools out there that use WebDAV could integrate nicely with ownCloud in user management. ownCloud has a simple and relatively decent "admin" interface that is a web UI. Going through the backend database to find things is not too hard either.

Linux ETC was introduced to it thanks for a few client requests looking at alternatives to DropBox that could be privately hosted (to chime in on Eric's posting). I also agree with Michael's remark about the "worst case scenario" of a MegaUpload situation even with the TOS we have for our hosted services since I rather not have to deal with the "headaches" involved for such. However, if there is a demand for such, I will consider it to some degree for Linux ETC and make sure Linux ETC is CYA'ed in the process. ;-)

That said, a decent VPS with Lisa's "How To" should suffice for a "private DropBox". I have recently read something about how the latest version of Apache now parallels nginx in performance, so that is a matter of personal preference once again since I have gone back and forth myself personally between both to squeeze out that extra few % points of performance optimization. ;-)

Just out of curiosity, who would be interested in ownCloud hosted privately (i.e., a privately hosted cloud setup) and how much "space" would be desired (e.g., 2GB, 4GB, 6GB, etc.)? As Eric stated, if there is a demand, Linux ETC could build it...so hopefully some PLUG folks might come to the party. B-)

FWIW.

--- Crawford 

The Linux ETC Company
10121 Yates Court
Westminster, CO 80031 USA
voice:  +1.303.604.2550
web:    http://www.linux-etc.com


Please do not print this email unless it is absolutely necessary. Be friendly to the environment by saving paper.

----- Eric Shubert <> wrote: -----
>
> I'm with you, Michael. I expect to see things moving in the direction
> of
> private, personal, self-hosted clouds. The Personal Server
> counterpart
> of what happened with the Personal Computer.
>
> When we build it, they will come.
>
> --
> -Eric 'shubes'
>
> On 06/20/2012 11:45 PM, Michael Butash wrote:
> > I too am curious how ymmv with owncloud - I'd looked into it a bit
> > ago
> > when shopping cost/features of various providers, but it seemed
> > clunky
> > still. Cost is a big issue why I don't now, especially when I
> > probably
> > have better infrastructure in my house than most cloud providers.
> >
> > Plus, any public "cloud" services scare me, as really I see them as
> > inevitable they'd be cracked or worse, go out megaupload-style for
> > government, media cartels, and ambulance-chasing lawyers fighting
> > over
> > who's harvesting data first. Having worked for enough service
> > providers
> > and enterprise, I've seen what incidents doen't make it public, and
> > that
> > scares me for my data even more. Security concerns me more than
> > performance, but both are important.
> >
> > What I need is something to global sync work files, person files,
> > media,
> > all the good stuff that really never needs to see the light of day.
> > It
> > sits behind my home network already replicated a number of ways,
> > really
> > just need it easily available across platforms grandma style with a
> > high
> > level of security.
> >
> > I'm assuming dropbox and like have caveats too, but from what I've
> > seen
> > it's slicker than anything else, especially when it'd be nice to
> > pull up
> > a config file at home to look at on my phone/tablet while away at
> > work
> > and without firing up a laptop. Just rather keep the data at home
> > where
> > I know it's plenty safe already.
> >
> > Slight reference anecdote: a guy at a company I was working at (a
> > cisco
> > ccie mind you) was fired when one of our full router configs was
> > found
> > on pastebin and investigated back to him. He was using some kind of
> > "secure cloud sync" app on his apple product to work from that
> > ended up
> > dumping it on pastebin full public read and swears he had no idea.
> > Opps.
> >
> > Fairly recent reminder of why I don't put my data in any cloud I
> > didn't
> > build.
> >
> > -mb
> >
> >
> > On 06/20/2012 06:00 PM, Mark Phillips wrote:
> >> Crawford,
> >>
> >> Thanks for your email. I have read conflicting reports in some
> >> forums
> >> that the file transfers (backing up user data) are slow. Is this
> >> true?
> >> Also, are there sync clients for different OSes that automate
> >> client
> >> backups?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Mark
> >>
> >> On Jun 20, 2012 12:24 PM, "Crawford Rainwater"
> >> <
> >> <mailto:crawford.rainwater@linux-etc.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Mark:
> >>
> >> Linux ETC has set ownCloud up for a client and has it as a "demo
> >> site" on our web server as well. It uses SabreDAV in the backend,
> >> so a little different than the typical WebDAV for API calls. We
> >> are
> >> still debating offering this as a service as well for general
> >> public
> >> use based on the storage size allocated on a monthly basis.
> >>
> >> What else would you like to know? ;-)
> >>
> >> --- Crawford
> >>
> >> The Linux ETC Company
> >> 10121 Yates Court
> >> Westminster, CO 80031 USA
> >> voice: +1.303.604.2550 <tel:%2B1.303.604.2550>
> >> web: http://www.linux-etc.com
> >>
> >> Please do not print this email unless it is absolutely necessary.
> >> Be friendly to the environment by saving paper.
> >>
> >> ----- Mark Phillips <
> >> <mailto:mark@phillipsmarketing.biz>> wrote: -----
> >> >
> >> > I was googling "how to build your own cloud storage", and ran
> >> > across
> >> > owncloud.org <http://owncloud.org>. A glorified webdav server.
> >> Does anyone have any
> >> > experience
> >> > with it?
> >> >
> >> > Mark
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
> >> <mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:39:12 -0700
> From: Eric Shubert <>
> To:
> Subject: Re: OT: Dell disks
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 06/19/2012 09:13 PM, Michael Butash wrote:
> > So yeah, no raid is perfect...
> >
> > I've been using software raid1 (md) for a while now for my desktops
> > and
> > laptops work and home, and since my adventures in ati gpu land,
> > I've
> > twice now had video software/hardware cause my software raid to
> > fail
> > ugly, but both times survivable while I rebuilt the array manually.
> > This
> > was just a few days ago the last...
> >
> > Both times were using GL functions (this time toggling compositing
> > on/off, last time i think minecraft) that caused the ati fglrx
> > drivers
> > to spew hardware errors seeming to glitch the card itself. Two
> > separate
> > cards as well now. Getting back into desktop went into visa with
> > gpu
> > unavailable. Then I saw my raid was degraded, again, same
> > timestamp as
> > the gpu glitch.
> >
> > First time prior one of the two disks in the md for boot went
> > offline,
> > simply added sdb1/2 back. This time one partition on each disk to
> > the
> > two md's (boot/else) to go offline alternatively (sda1/sdb2) - very
> > odd.
> > The second disk wouldn't respond to hdparm/fdisk query until a
> > reboot
> > that was done very hesitantly and not before I backed up anything I
> > cared about to an nfs share. Data on both remained available which
> > was
> > really the odd part.
> >
> > To its testament, it rebooted, both disks reported healthy (hdparm,
> > ubuntu disk utility), I re-added each partition, let it rebuild,
> > and
> > works again. Still worries me as my last set of ssd disks got
> > unstable
> > on one after less than 9 months of use and I'm probably about there
> > with
> > these that are known to get cranky. Smart reports them as ok, so I
> > wonder how bad ati taints the kernel space that it causes disk
> > controller/driver exceptions.
> >
> > Moral of story: know when/how to repair whatever raid, as software
> > and
> > hardware are seemingly still prone to exception from unlikely
> > places.
> > Last time a disk died with md, I just mounted the secondary in an
> > enclosure, copied off data as pluggable, and copied to the new pair
> > of
> > raid disks. Hardware is never this easy, especially fakeraids.
> >
> > -mb
>
> I use software raid strictly on servers, which are headless (of
> course).
> I keep data on a server when practical, and run a daily rsync
> (offsite)
> backup of data on my workstation. Interesting to note the problems
> with
> video though. You might want to hop onto the raid list
> (gmane.linux.raid) and see what they think about it.
>
> I don't know why anyone would run SSDs in a raid. RAID IS NOT A
> BACKUP.
> Of course if you're concerned about device failure and need to
> maintain
> continuity, raid is entirely appropriate.
>
> One of the nice things about sw raid-1 is that as long as you have
> one
> good drive/partition, then you can recover. Just start the array in
> degraded mode, and you're good to go. I know that grub can access a
> single raid-1 partition w/out starting the array, which makes me
> wonder
> if you can simply mount one of the raid-1 partitions straight away
> w/out
> starting the array. I should try that so I know for sure if it's
> possible or not.
>
> BL, *never* use fakeraid, and avoid raid-5 if possible. Disk space is
> no
> longer expensive enough to justify using raid-5.
>
> --
> -Eric 'shubes'
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:41:35 -0700
> From: "Carruth, Rusty" <>
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list"
>     <>,
>     <>
> Subject: raid (was RE: OT: Dell disks)
> Message-ID:
>     <>

>     
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: on behalf of Eric
> Shubert
>
> On 06/19/2012 09:13 PM, Michael Butash wrote:
> > > So yeah, no raid is perfect...
> > >
> > ...
> > > -mb
> >
> > I use software raid strictly on servers, which are headless (of
> > course).
> > ...
> >
> > I don't know why anyone would run SSDs in a raid. RAID IS NOT A
> > BACKUP.
>
> Rather than my guessing, would you mind explaining your reasons? I'm
> curious.
>
> > ...
> >
> > BL, *never* use fakeraid, and avoid raid-5 if possible. Disk space
> > is no
> > longer expensive enough to justify using raid-5.
>
> Wow, someone else who agrees with me - IMHO, if its important enough
> to need raid, don't try to skimp and save a few bucks so you can
> lose your data!
>
> Rusty
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:01:41 -0700
> From: "Gilbert T. Gutierrez, Jr." <>
> To: Main PLUG discussion list <>
> Subject: Re: raid (was RE: OT: Dell disks)
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> Other than the case when 2 drives failed, Raid 5 worked for me for
> many
> years. If you are using simple mirroring though 2 drives failing will
> cause the same issue. I now use Raid 6 for a little more redundancy.
> Always backup your data to other storage (offsite if possible)
> in-case
> of disaster.
>
> Gilbert
>
> On 6/21/2012 8:41 AM, Carruth, Rusty wrote:
> > raid (was RE: OT: Dell disks)
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: on behalf of
> > Eric
> > Shubert
> >
> > On 06/19/2012 09:13 PM, Michael Butash wrote:
> > > > So yeah, no raid is perfect...
> > > >
> > > ...
> > > > -mb
> > >
> > > I use software raid strictly on servers, which are headless (of
> > > course).
> > > ...
> > >
> > > I don't know why anyone would run SSDs in a raid. RAID IS NOT A
> > > BACKUP.
> >
> > Rather than my guessing, would you mind explaining your reasons?
> > I'm
> > curious.
> >
> > > ...
> > >
> > > BL, *never* use fakeraid, and avoid raid-5 if possible. Disk
> > > space is no
> > > longer expensive enough to justify using raid-5.
> >
> > Wow, someone else who agrees with me - IMHO, if its important
> > enough
> > to need raid, don't try to skimp and save a few bucks so you can
> > lose
> > your data!
> >
> > Rusty
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list -
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
>
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:06:18 -0700
> From: Mark Phillips <>
> To: Main PLUG discussion list <>
> Subject: Re: Has Anyone Used OwnCloud?
> Message-ID:
>     <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>
> Lisa,
>
> Thanks for the link. I guess I will just have to install it and see
> how it
> works.
>
> Mark
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 6:02 AM, Lisa Kachold
> <>wrote:
>
> > Hi Mark,
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 5:31 PM, Mark Phillips
> > <
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> I was googling "how to build your own cloud storage", and ran
> >> across
> >> owncloud.org. A glorified webdav server. Does anyone have any
> >> experience
> >> with it?
> >>
> >
> > This looks interesting:
> >
> >
> > http://www.howtoforge.com/your-cloud-your-data-your-way-owncloud-4.0-nginx-postgresql-on-centos-6.2
> >
> >>
> >> Mark
> >>
> >> --
> > (503) 754-4452 Android
> > (623) 239-3392 Skype
> > (623) 688-3392 Google Voice
> > **
> > <http://it-clowns.com>Safeway.com
> > Automation Engineer
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list -
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:35:27 -0700
> From: Michael Butash <>
> To:
> Subject: Re: raid (was RE: OT: Dell disks)
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Agreed - I have a separate nas I rsync important data regularly with
> between my laptop as I often work away from home, here I just use the
> nas. Problem is I don't always have my laptop on at home, and
> sometimes
> goes weeks without replication.
>
> I run the ssd's in raid1 as a) i want *some* disk-level redundancy so
> as
> not to rebuild my desktop from scratch yearly when they puke and b)
> want
> the speed, so am willing to deal with their questionable nature.
>
> I'd buy some of Rusty's companies industrial ssd's, but they don't
> seem
> to sell to want to sell them easily anywhere, and what I do find for
> sale is insanely priced ($10-20/gb). Nor does anyone commonly sell
> them
> even if i were made of cash. Kind of annoying to get enterprise
> stuff
> at home you have to hit secondary markets ala ebay, sorta like a
> crackhead hitting a swapmeet for off the back of the truck goods.
> Definitely not something I want to get "refurbed" after some
> enterprise
> has run sql db's off it for 2 years already.
>
> I might pay double to avoid the stress of rebulding the os yearly
> with
> crap ssd's (which seems 98% are), but not 10-20x.
>
> -mb
>
>
> On 06/21/2012 09:01 AM, Gilbert T. Gutierrez, Jr. wrote:
> > Other than the case when 2 drives failed, Raid 5 worked for me for
> > many
> > years. If you are using simple mirroring though 2 drives failing
> > will
> > cause the same issue. I now use Raid 6 for a little more
> > redundancy.
> > Always backup your data to other storage (offsite if possible)
> > in-case
> > of disaster.
> >
> > Gilbert
> >
> > On 6/21/2012 8:41 AM, Carruth, Rusty wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: on behalf of
> >> Eric
> >> Shubert
> >>
> >> On 06/19/2012 09:13 PM, Michael Butash wrote:
> >> > > So yeah, no raid is perfect...
> >> > >
> >> > ...
> >> > > -mb
> >> >
> >> > I use software raid strictly on servers, which are headless (of
> >> > course).
> >> > ...
> >> >
> >> > I don't know why anyone would run SSDs in a raid. RAID IS NOT A
> >> > BACKUP.
> >>
> >> Rather than my guessing, would you mind explaining your reasons?
> >> I'm
> >> curious.
> >>
> >> > ...
> >> >
> >> > BL, *never* use fakeraid, and avoid raid-5 if possible. Disk
> >> > space is no
> >> > longer expensive enough to justify using raid-5.
> >>
> >> Wow, someone else who agrees with me - IMHO, if its important
> >> enough
> >> to need raid, don't try to skimp and save a few bucks so you can
> >> lose
> >> your data!
> >>
> >> Rusty
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list -
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
>
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:52:47 -0700
> From: Stephen <>
> To: Main PLUG discussion list <>
> Subject: Re: raid (was RE: OT: Dell disks)
> Message-ID:
>     <CACS_G9yCh5aqU=F-W6qv=>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>
> I have never liked raid 5 but can still see its use. And while you
> are 100%
> correct I have the statement that raid is not a back up it is a good
> feature for performance needs and overall uptime so you can keep
> running in
> case of single disk failure. Which I have dealt with.
> On Jun 21, 2012 8:45 AM, "Carruth, Rusty"
> <>
> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: on behalf of
> > Eric
> > Shubert
> >
> > On 06/19/2012 09:13 PM, Michael Butash wrote:
> > > > So yeah, no raid is perfect...
> > > >
> > > ...
> > > > -mb
> > >
> > > I use software raid strictly on servers, which are headless (of
> > > course).
> > > ...
> > >
> > > I don't know why anyone would run SSDs in a raid. RAID IS NOT A
> > > BACKUP.
> >
> > Rather than my guessing, would you mind explaining your reasons?
> > I'm
> > curious.
> >
> > > ...
> > >
> > > BL, *never* use fakeraid, and avoid raid-5 if possible. Disk
> > > space is no
> > > longer expensive enough to justify using raid-5.
> >
> > Wow, someone else who agrees with me - IMHO, if its important
> > enough to
> > need raid, don't try to skimp and save a few bucks so you can lose
> > your
> > data!
> >
> > Rusty
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list -
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >
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