You point the finger at Walmart, but why don't you point to the coercion as
the culprit, as the root cause of our ills? Walmart does a great job of
ensuring low prices for its consumers. Section-8 housing, food stamps, state
funded health care are all different incarnations of the state's power of
coercion.
Which is more important - giving a few a decent wage (whether they are worth
it or not is ignored for this question) or giving many the buying power no
other corporation is capable of doing?
A good read is Economics in One Lesson.
Eric
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 1:27 PM, keith smith <
klsmith2020@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> I would say Wal-mart is a great example of true greed. While they provide
> stuff at a low price they do so by gaming the system. They require tax cuts
> to build in your area and they pay the lowest of low wages. They tell their
> employees to get government subsistence as part of their model.
>
> Basically we subsidize their business model by supporting their employees
> with section-8 housing, food stamps, and state funded health care. I have
> no problem with the needy being helped however when it becomes part of a
> business plan, I am against it. People need to make a living wage. And as
> they move up they should make a decent wage. In 2002 I worked with a guy
> who had been a department manager at Wal-Mart and he left Wal-Mart because
> he was only making $8/hr. Yikes!!
>
> Walmart is a cancer in my opinion.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiSmlmXp-aU&feature=player_embedded#! This
> movie is available on NetFlix.
>
> Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price
> 2005NR97 minutes
>
> Filmmaker Robert Greenwald takes aim at the corporate giant that's come to
> symbolize big business in America -- Wal-Mart -- blasting the box-store
> Goliath for allegedly paying substandard wages, skimping on employee
> benefits and gutting communities. This hard-hitting, emotional documentary
> profiles the struggle of everyday folks from around the country who've
> committed themselves to fighting the mega-retailer.
>
> And the Waltons claim to be Christian. I think they forgot to read their
> Bible - it has become all about them.
>
> I think CostCo is much better however they need to be watched because they
> are trying to be less employee oriented.
>
> ------------------------
> Keith Smith
>
>
> --- On *Mon, 8/30/10, joe@actionline.com <joe@actionline.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: joe@actionline.com <joe@actionline.com>
> Subject: Re: OT: Plug Digest, Vol 62, Issue 31 - the unfixable problem.
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 12:48 PM
>
>
>
> Responses interspersed below:
>
> > Its my current view that we all have desires that stem from greed
>
> I don't think this is a correct observation.
>
> Surely it is not a true statement that "we ... *all* ... have desires
> that stem from greed"
>
> There are enormous numbers of people who are assuredly *not* driven
> by greed or who are even in the slightest tainted by greed. Of course
> many are consumed by greed; but many people, many professionals, and
> even many profit-motivated businesses are assuredly *not* driven or
> even in the smallest way motivated by greed.
>
> Non-profit organizations are one example.
>
> Medical "missionaries" and rescuers of many kinds to are quick to dash to
> places like Katrina ravaged New Orleans, Haiti, Rwanda, and countless
> other places are obviously not motivated by greed.
>
> One excellent example (close to our hearts ;) is the whole GNU-Linux-FOSS
> movement. Most individuals who give enormous amounts of time and effort
> trying to continually improve everything about "G-L-F" are obviously not
> motivated primarily by greed.
>
> There are probably even a few (no doubt a pretty small percentage -
> perhaps a tenth or hundredth of a percent ;) of lawyers who are not
> motivated mainly by greed, but rather by a genuine desire to help people
> in need.
>
> On the other hand, it seems ever-more-increasingly clear that most of the
> so-called "medical" profession and related hospital industry, like the
> so-called legal (injustice) system, are motivated mainly by greed.
>
> > the desire to offer our services for as high a price as possible
> > AND to desire others' services for as low a prices as possible.
>
> In the case of businesses and business services, there are many examples
> in which owners and managers may be profit-motivated (not non-profits),
> but who are sincerely endeavoring to deliver lower prices and lower costs
> ... and not merely driven by competitive pressures. Rather, many are the
> makers of competitive pressures when they do not necessarily need to.
>
> Obviously, the petroleum industry is not one of those.
>
> However (while some may start throwing rotten vegetables at me), Walmart
> is an example of a business that is built on continuously working to
> deliver the lowest possible prices. Costco is another example where
> pressing for the highest possible price that they can get away with is not
> their motive. Interesting, too, that the CEO of Costco takes such a
> relatively small salary. But I digress.
>
> > We can't wish these results, but must participate in the market
> > to get as close to these desires as willing.
>
> It's important to understand that the definition of greed necessarily
> begins with the word "excessive" ... excessive consumption and/or
> excessive desire for wealth, etc.
>
> And that definition of greed is played out in the building of grandiose
> hospital and medical facilities. Recently we saw in the news about a huge
> donation of many millions of dollars given to the Mayo clinic. What a
> wonderful action, and not one to be denigrated in any way ... however,
> just think of how many small, modest clinics could have been built to
> provide low-cost health-care for so many in desperate need rather than
> building yet another grandiose edifice to be equipped with the most costly
> and extravagant futuristic equipment where only the rich and famous can
> afford to seek treatment.
>
> > Coercion is the use of force (noun) to force (verb) you to participate in
> > a market you are unwilling to participate freely, either through paying
> > higher prices that you would normally, or through receiving a lower price
> > for our own service.
>
> While I certainly agree with this observation, it addresses something
> different than the greed that seems to be what is driving the medical and
> hospital industry.
>
> > The former requires mutual benefit for a transaction to take place. The
> > latter does not, in fact, it rarely benefits more than one party
> involved.
>
> I'm just not sure how to connect this last statement with the issue of
> greed as (what I believe to be) the driving force for the outrageous costs
> for so-called "health care" in this country. I don't see how coercion is
> driving up the costs, more-so than simply sheer greed.
>
>
>
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