Please excuse my inexperience here but I'm not sure what you mean. I
have a script that runs in cron and checks installed packages against
glsa (glsa-check is a app for gentoo) and if there is a security problem
on an installed package it notifies us immediately, because of this
security packages that make it in to portage generally are applied to
systems within the hour when they're released. However, I'm not sure
what you mean by checking against the patch lists (like I said I'm still
relatively new sys admin in general) is there a better way to go about
security policy for linux servers.
btw, I'm not particularly attached to gentoo so if you or anyone know
another distro better from a sys admin standpoint for staying ahead of
security that would be great. The above mentioned glsa-check script and
another script allowing most packages to be updated on all servers at
once is the main reason I use it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lisa Kachold <
lisakachold@obnosis.com>
Reply-to: Main PLUG discussion list
<
plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
To: Main PLUG discussion list <
plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
Subject: Re: Linux vs OpenBSD as a router
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 00:50:10 -0400
Yes, my point with wget was/is that it's on ALL distros, so having
package updates is essential.
If you actually trust portage; or have you had stellar experiences with
gentoo patch updates?
In my historical day(s), portage was replaced by the best gentoo admins
(Dotster for instance, now replaced with CentOs) with custom local
portage server source, due to many issues.
And from my experience, Gentoo admins simply don't patch update.
Honestly, now, do you? Have you checked your source against the patch
lists?
Point made!
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Paul Mooring <drpppr242@gmail.com>
wrote:
I definately see what your saying and agree that the most
important thing is to use a distro or OS that ou have policies
in place to stay current on patches and updates, but I'm not
sure I see your point about gentoo security. It looks to me
like that link shows a patch in portage where gentoo had fixed
an issue with wget (before similiar updates where out for suse,
redhat, or ubuntu) which seems to me to be an indicator of good
security practices for a distro, and as for as securing open
ports, I would think you wouldn't open them up in the first
place without trusting the service on any particular port.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lisa Kachold <lisakachold@obnosis.com>
Reply-to: Main PLUG discussion list
<plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
To: Main PLUG discussion list
<plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
Subject: Re: Linux vs OpenBSD as a router
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 08:06:48 -0700
Gentoo likewise has problematic patch security and package
management. I have built more than a few of those systems.
OpenBSD of course has less to patch, if installed without all
the X.
SLES has inherent kernel security and NX (immunix-style
development by Crispen Cowen), and packages can easily be
hardened.
All production use of Linux requires a good understanding of
both patch management and server hardening, especially in a
firewall.
My point is, that whatever you choose, especially in a
production environment, a process must be in place to track
security issues, and apply patches with a modicrum of dependence
that they will, in fact, work, with insurance that the downtime
will be ONE reboot (for a kernel patch/rebuild).
You know that the day the exploit has been announced, the
exploit scripts are in play?
Gentoo has horrendous security issues. Do you know that every
port open to both local networking and external applications is
secure?
http://www.gentoo.org/security/en/glsa/ [Example - I am pretty
sure you are using wget (since it's part of the hand build
process {you did build your gentoo distro by hand didn't you?})
- first thing on the list....possibly mitigated because you
don't have shell users to gain root, but there are a great many
others that are a factor in a firewall application (net/dhcpd).
How are you going to be alerted tomorrow when the reverse
engineers partner with progress to dissassemble
binaries/kernels/SSL entropy while building metasploit
toys/tools to prove their intelligence is worth a book deal or
consulting company?
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 7:46 AM, Paul Mooring
<drpppr242@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know as much about security as you do, but
surely your not suggesting that distros like suse or
ubuntu or more secure than openbsd. I thought the whole
purpose behind openbsd was to make a secure os, as
oppose to suse for example which I quit using on
firewall servers for the security issues created from
all the unwanted packages installed by default. Are you
saying I'm wrong in thinking that by default openBSD/pf
has siginificantly less security issues than say
gentoo/iptables (which is what I'm currently using in
this set up).
-----Original Message-----
From: Lisa Kachold <lisakachold@obnosis.com>
Reply-to: Main PLUG discussion list
<plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
To: Main PLUG discussion list
<plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
Subject: Re: Linux vs OpenBSD as a router
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:09:39 -0700
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Paul Mooring
<drpppr242@gmail.com> wrote:
I've been running linux routers using iproute2
and iptables for a while now, and openBSD just
had a new release which has me considering
switching my home setup to a BSD pf solution.
Does anyone have any experience comparing the
two? I guess I'm also concerned about other
software I use on my linux router not being
supported in openBSD (OpenVPN, OpenSwan, and
Quagga primarily).
Hi! I agree that pf is easier. My first copy of
FreeBSD was won from Defcon 6, answering a question
correctly from the crowd, and I proceeded to learn about
the wonders that are BSD for a command line (and Xterm)
systems administrator.
But seeing a good number of implementations of both
linux and especially OpenBSD in the field, I see
shameful exploits that have never been patched. I.E.
They set it up, (fail to test their rules fully with a
full tool suite like BackTrack4 [but that is another
subject]) and call it functionally adequate; the world
marches on, and reverse engineers as progress continues,
yet OpenBSD core kernel exploits (for instance) are
never patched (like the well known null kernel deference
exploit).
Here are the top $n reasons to avoid OpenBSD:
1) Use a distribution that provides automated source and
binary patch management or updates like SLES, Redhat, or
Ubuntu for your firewall source.
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq15.html
You are not going to have time to deal with issues
brought forth from updates and kernel rebuilds on your
bastion firewall system.
2) Example OpenBSD PF null pointer deference & scapy:
____________________________
PROBLEM:
OpenBSD PF Remote Denial Of
Service Vulnerability
Exploiting this issue allows
remote attackers to cause a
kernel panic on affected
computers, denying further
service to legitimate users.
PLATFORM:
OpenBSD 4.3, 4.4, and 4.5
are affected.
ABSTRACT:
OpenBSDs PF firewall in
OpenBSD 4.3 up to
OpenBSD-current is prone to
a remote Denial of Service
during a null pointer
dereference in relation with
special crafted IP
datagrams. If the firewall
handles such a packet the
kernel panics. The
vulnerability resides in
'sys/net/pf.c' in the
pf_test() function.
Ref:
http://www.doecirc.energy.gov/bulletins/t-110.shtml
Current release is 4.6, but you can bet there are no
proactive patches for anything older than April 2009!
Get scapy baby! Ref:
http://pentestit.com/2009/09/03/scapy-powerful-interactive-packet-manipulator/
3) IPV6 wa hopelessly broken in OpenBSD up to 4.1
(2007)
Remotely exploitable buffer overflow vulnerability, due
to kernel memory design flaw in IPv6.
Hey? Good thing I mentioned it, right, or are you all
checking the source exploits on each distro tool you
use? Are you all keeping up on all that source code in
legacy systems? Script kiddies could just be running
the python exploit example publicized here:
http://blog.lifeoverip.net/2007/03/14/only-two-remote-holes-in-the-default-install-in-more-than-10-years/
Ref:
http://www.coresecurity.com/content/open-bsd-advisorie
4) Quagga bgpd denial of service vulnerability (not just
for OpenBSD 4.4 or earlier, but it is trivial to update
source in other distros):
http://www.openbsd.org/errata44.html
Other distros: Ref:
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/17979
5) OpenBSD 4.6 BIND dynamic zone update message crash
(should you need to use BIND on your firewall).
http://www.openbsd.org/security.html#46
6) Exploit mitigation techniques are very complex. Once
you read through a well explained example, you will
agree, that one mitigation technique might not be
sufficient.
http://www.openbsd.org/papers/ven05-deraadt/index.html
Summary: Check your security patch and exploits by
release for OpenBSD here:
http://www.openbsd.org/security.html
Be sure to indicate to all your stakeholders that when
you take down your firewall to implement these fixes
EVERYTHING will be either down or at risk? Be sure to
dd that original kernel to backup before attempting a
patch, so you can swiftly roll back? Same thing for all
the juicy binary sources, running unpatched...ignored
and constantly under seige!
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