> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Alan Dayley <alandd@consultpros.com>
> To: Main PLUG discussion list <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 23:09:43 -0700
> Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX
> Joshua,
>
> I put all your replies together in one long document and reread them.
> I am still confused a bit. Enlightenment via email rarely occurs.
> However, I really want to understand your position in this discussion.
> Let me summarize what I understand from your replies.
>
> ---[Start my paraphasing of your comments]---
>
> - There is a small group or groups of people who keep spinning off
> communities using tired marketing techniques. This results in blogs
> but not true communities.
>
> - Some of these people cannot deal with existing structure and the
> efforts of the past.
>
> - These weak attempts do not articulate goals or purpose well, if at all.
>
> - We must honestly look at criticism to learn and improve.
>
> - These weak people need to address the efforts of the past and
> provide suggestions on how they can be improved upon.
>
> - Getting political support will provide legitimacy to their efforts.
>
> - Phoenix will attract technology businesses because of the relative
> low cost and this will help improve things.
>
> - You have first hand experiences of weak, marketing fronted,
> community building efforts.
>
> - Many 'entrepreneurs' have grand ideas but get nowhere with them
> because they are not real businesses.
>
> - People at a co-working location or coffee shop will not help you
> with your business unless you pay them.
>
> - Most people at co-working started their one person business after
> being laid-off and are not serious about it. They are really just
> looking for the next full time gig. This will get in your way if you
> have real business work to do.
>
> - We must look truthfully at this issue if we are to make progress.
>
> - There are no serious incubators and entrepreneurial meetups in
> Phoenix. No announcements on VC funding of companies so it's not
> really entrepreneurial growth.
>
> ---[End my paraphrasing of your comments]---
>
> I see validity in every one of these comments. I also think many of
> them can be balanced by the other point of view. I still have
> questions, if I may ask, before I state too much of my own thinking.
> I want to learn more about your thinking.
>
> 1. What does "deal with existing structure" mean? This confuses me,
> not know what structure you are talking about.
>
> 2. To what efforts of the past are you referring? I want to
> understand the size and nature of efforts to creating a community that
> you feel were legitimate but perhaps did not work as planned.
>
> 3. What political support is needed? You mean government funding of
> events or startups or just verbal support or what?
>
> 4. Why is it wrong or a problem for someone who is laid-off to have
> grand ideas, talk about them and they never come to be?
>
> 5. Is it not conceivable that people might help each other in business
> efforts? Isn't strengthening and creating such a culture a good idea
> or should such a goal not be pursued because it is not practically
> possible?
>
> Alan
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Joshua Zeidner<jjzeidner@gmail.com> wrote:
>> another great one:
>>
>> "OK, my question stands. Where are the incubators, the "bootstrap"
>> seminars, the serious entrepreneurial meetups in Phoenix??? (crickets
>> chirping). Phoenix just ain't happening as a serious place where
>> serious people are doing serious things. No one wants it badly enough
>> here. This paper should be having at least one article a week on a new
>> startup and the VC firm who funded it. Helloooo????? is anybody out
>> there...."
>>
>> a better way to phrase this: we need to stop pretending these
>> whimsical efforts churned out by local self-employed marketing experts
>> are sufficient. They are not. We should be asking the hard
>> questions, not playing games.
>>
>> -jmz
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Joshua Zeidner<jjzeidner@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> another point, honestly reading through some of the criticisms on
>>> azcentral and being of the cafe dwelling creed myself, I'd have to say
>>> that many of those points are accurate. I've heard lots of
>>> 'entrepreneurs' with big ideas around here who never get anywhere with
>>> them. Sorry, but a word press template doesn't make you an
>>> entrepreneur.
>>>
>>> "These are the same people you see at Starbucks, Boarders or any
>>> other wi-fi hot spot, they are not entrepreneurs they are attention
>>> (inappropriate term)."
>>>
>>> "Many of the Co-Worker location founders tout other people to
>>> collaborate with and who can "compensate for your deficiencies". Do
>>> you really believe someone that you are not paying as an employee is
>>> going to somehow compensate for your deficiencies and make your
>>> business better? That kind of help doesn't come without a price."
>>>
>>> oh so true...
>>>
>>> "You are more likely to get a bunch of people chatting to you over
>>> your "work" so you wont be concentrating as you should to focus on
>>> your business. Most of these people started businesses after being
>>> laid off. They are searching for a new job and they aren't really
>>> serious about their "businesses" so how do you expect them to give you
>>> valuable, serious advice. Are these the kind of people you need to
>>> compensate for your deficiencies? A bunch of people half-as running
>>> their "business" while searching for a real job and bothering you with
>>> their expertise that got them laid off in the first place."
>>>
>>> oh so so true...
>>>
>>> I would be willing to bet the commenter above is an tried and true
>>> successful entrepreneur. Perhaps the reason I am so skeptical is
>>> because I know these kind of people so well.
>>>
>>> sorry I really wish I could be more supportive... but : truth is
>>> the foundation of progress.
>>>
>>> -jmz
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Joshua Zeidner<jjzeidner@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Alan,
>>>>
>>>> Wish I had time to respond to all these points right now, not sure
>>>> you read me the way I would prefer however. Its not so grave a
>>>> warning, just getting the word out on my first hand experiences. Im
>>>> just one of many- but hopefully an impartial observer and someone
>>>> genuinely concerned for AZ.
>>>>
>>>> all the best, jmz
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Alan Dayley<alandd@consultpros.com> wrote:
>>>>> Josh,
>>>>>
>>>>> I feel warned. And I don't understand the reason for such a strong warning.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are people in every industry, government or community who wish
>>>>> to fleece their "community" for their own profit instead of mutual
>>>>> benefit. The trick is to find the positive people and ignore the
>>>>> rest. Apply the same filter with every event, group or blogger in the
>>>>> lists and links I provided. I don't expect bloggers or techies to be
>>>>> any different, as if being techie makes one a saint.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some of those bloggers are purely commercial or completely neglected,
>>>>> I'm sure. Some of the groups or events or sites listed are lousy,
>>>>> boring or poor marketing excuses to sell something. Some are not out
>>>>> to create community but to build a "kingdom" for their own benefit.
>>>>> They are the duds.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's look at a few positives:
>>>>>
>>>>> - Read the Gangplank Manifesto on their home page at
>>>>> http://gangplankhq.com. That looks like a great articulation of their
>>>>> goals and purpose. Ones I strongly support!
>>>>> -- Read how the manifesto came to be on Derek's blog at
>>>>> http://derekneighbors.com/2009/07/collaborative-writing-or-how-the-gangplank-manifesto-was-written/
>>>>>
>>>>> - Gangplank has hosted or is hosting:
>>>>> -- MobiFest - a day long conference on developing for phones like
>>>>> iPhone or Android
>>>>> -- Gangplank Jr. - a 2-3 hour Saturday event for kids 5-15 to learn
>>>>> programming concepts
>>>>> -- Wordpress training classes for minimal cost or no-cost for non-profit orgs
>>>>> -- Laid Off Camp - a day long conference on job searching and entreprenuership
>>>>> -- Barcamp Pheonix - a day long conference on software development
>>>>> -- TEDx night - Watch ted.com videos and discuss them
>>>>> -- OpenPhoenix - a night of open mic music and entertainment
>>>>>
>>>>> - The last http://desertcodecamp.com/ was held on June 13th and nearly
>>>>> filled DeVry's Phoenix campus with developers talking about code or
>>>>> making code. Free lunch of pizza and sub sandwiches was provided too.
>>>>> Put together by volunteers.
>>>>>
>>>>> - If you're into Microsoft based development tech, the people who
>>>>> maintain the http://azgroups.com site do an annual all-day event at
>>>>> venues like the Orphium Theater and at no cost to attendees. Fine,
>>>>> it's marketing for MS but it's put on by volunteers here in the valley
>>>>> and a great way for people to learn about things that improve their
>>>>> career skills.
>>>>> (http://www.componentart.com/BLOGS/milos/archive/2009/06/02/scott-guthrie-event-2009-phoenix-az.aspx)
>>>>>
>>>>> - The local Ruby On Rails group has monthly meetings with around 30
>>>>> regularly in attendance.
>>>>>
>>>>> - The Java group is also well attended every month.
>>>>>
>>>>> - The third http://podcampaz.com/ is coming up in November, put on by
>>>>> voluteers at no cost (donation requested) to attendees. Had about 350
>>>>> people attend last year (if I recall) for two days of conference.
>>>>>
>>>>> - The http://azentrepreneurship.com/ conference will be in November
>>>>> for the forth year. This one costs $100+ but should be as well
>>>>> attended as last year with 200+ people. Funded and organized in part
>>>>> by a local venture capital group.
>>>>>
>>>>> - The first http://ignitephoenix.com event was held a year ago with a
>>>>> little over 100 in attendance and has grown to fill the 600 seat
>>>>> Theather at Tempe Center for the Arts back in June. The connections
>>>>> made there live well past the event.
>>>>> -- Oh, a city council member and the mayor of Tempe spoke this last
>>>>> time, though he was a bit silly trying to be Tempe exclusive. That
>>>>> seems to be at least verbal political support.
>>>>>
>>>>> - The second ABLEConf on FS/OSS is being planned for October and
>>>>> should be better than last year. (Go Hans and team!)
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not going to go on, though I could point out several purely social
>>>>> events like http://phoenixfridaynights.com/, it's east and west valley
>>>>> analogs, East Valley Thursday Morning breakfasts, Tempe Geeks Lunch,
>>>>> South Valley Geek Meet and Eat and Gangplank's Brown Gag lunch
>>>>> presentations every Wednesday.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, having said all of that "giddy blind optimism," I'd like to
>>>>> understand how the above does not address the efforts of the past or
>>>>> provide improvement over past efforts. What are the real needs of the
>>>>> community, if not some of the above? What would you suggest? How can
>>>>> PLUG be a part of it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Alan
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Joshua Zeidner<jjzeidner@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Alan,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> while I appreciate your post, and anyone who is making a sincere
>>>>>> effort to build community in Phoenix... be warned. There are some
>>>>>> small groups who periodically spawn off new 'communities' every month
>>>>>> or so. Look closely and you see the same few people with reused
>>>>>> marketing recipes. Lots of blog and not too much community I'm
>>>>>> afraid. Their efforts amount to some simple branding and putting up a
>>>>>> blog. While these things are not really particularily offensive to
>>>>>> me, they do somewhat detract from interest in the real needs of the
>>>>>> community here. Some of these people are just outright idiotic and
>>>>>> cannot deal with existing structure and refuse to accept the history
>>>>>> of efforts in the past. They lack any articulation of their goals and
>>>>>> purpose. Often times they have trouble organizing even small groups
>>>>>> of 2 or 3. Dont forget we've had a tech incubator here. Lets not
>>>>>> smack down sincere criticism in favor of giddy blind optimism,
>>>>>> remember you can't improve without criticism. I would take these
>>>>>> people much more seriously if they addressed the efforts of the past
>>>>>> and perhaps suggested how they are going to improve on them, or
>>>>>> perhaps indicate what has changed that will make them a success.
>>>>>> Maybe seeking real political support would gain some legitimacy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> on the positive side, I think Phoenix will attract a lot of
>>>>>> technology business due to its relative low cost and no doubt you will
>>>>>> start to see community infrastructure grow. We are seeing some real
>>>>>> urban development happening in Phx metro which has me very excited. I
>>>>>> think when the macroeconomic problems are sorted out we will see
>>>>>> downtown Phx bloom. Im hoping that the average Arizonan gets involved
>>>>>> in the political process and make sure that the corruption stays out
>>>>>> of city and state politics. Coming from NY, Im recognizing a lot of
>>>>>> positive development trends in Phx metro.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -jmz
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>
please trim posts. In digest form, it because a lot bulk fiber that is
hard digest all at once. :)
Mike
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