Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX

The national guard incident you are referring to was a government mistake. I suspect you are writing about Kent State.

As an ex-police officer and and ex-Arizona National Guardsman I can say using the national guard to deal with a demonstration was a bad idea.

I suspect most states do little or no training on how to deal with these types of issues. I was active duty with the Marine Corps and after being discharged from active duty I joint the Arizona Army National Guard. I received a lot of training of which maybe 1 or 2% of it had to do with civil disobedience. The other 98 or 99% of my training was combat training.

As a police officer I spent all my time dealing with the civilian population. Much different training and response to problems.

The government should never deploy the National Guard, reserve forces, or Active Duty personnel against American civilians.


------------------------
Keith Smith


--- On Sun, 8/2/09, Craig White <craigwhite@azapple.com> wrote:

> From: Craig White <craigwhite@azapple.com>
> Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 4:39 PM
> On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 16:08 -0700,
> Lyle Tuttle wrote:
> > At 03:05 PM 8/2/2009, you wrote:
> > > On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 14:42 -0700, keith smith
> wrote:
> > > > Some think deregulation was a factor. 
> Bailing out thosw who made
> > > bad
> > > > decisions is even worse. 
> > > >
> > > > We should have let GM and Chrysler go
> bankrupt at the get go.  We
> > > > should have held those accountable for risky
> loans accountable not
> > > > bailed them out.
> > > ----
> > > the bailout of Chrysler and GM was to save the
> health care benefits
> > > and
> > > pensions of the retired and workers. Why should a
> government exist
> > > except to benefit the people?
> > >
> > > the bailout of banks and investment houses was
> simply to prevent a
> > > huge
> > > depression. We surely haven't seen the bottom of
> this recession and
> > > who
> > > knows how many more jobs & homes will be lost
> when it is done. While
> > > it
> > > goes against everything we all think is proper,
> bailing out some of
> > > the
> > > companies that caused this nightmare may have
> been the only option
> > > to
> > > prevent a complete meltdown of the economy. It
> still may come to
> > > pass.
> >
> > Government CREATED these issues above -- have you
> considered that?
> ----
> that's absurd - make an argument for this assertion please
> ----
> > > > Wait til you social security disappears and
> we move into hyper
> > > > inflation.
> > > ----
> > > social security is solid if our government is
> solid. It is funded
> > > into
> > > 2040 and those who are calling it endangered do
> so for political
> > > reasons.
> >
> > If that is true, why are they now wanting to limit
> [change the rules]
> > Medicare/Medicaid - same thing only different....and
> you call SS OK --
> > what if you are 20 years old now -- will SS be there
> for you?
> ----
> there is plenty of time to correct a shortfall in Social
> Security by
> 2040. This is a perfect example of a government program
> that has worked
> very well.
>
> Medicare is obvious...the costs are skyrocketing. I suppose
> you can
> twist things to make it fit any result you want to get but
> none of the
> politicians want to kill Medicare. They don't have the
> political will.
> Medicare is here to stay and it is a government run health
> plan...deal
> with it.
> ----
> > > I seem to recall our own national guard shooting
> at people in this
> > > country who stood up against the government. I
> fail to see the
> > > difference here.
> >
> > The main difference [beside the numbers and the freq
> of occurance] was
> > that here, there was repercussion; in China not.....
> ----
> did Ohio National Guardsman go to jail for shooting unarmed
> citizens?
> Did they lock up the commanders who told them to load their
> weapons with
> live rounds?
>
> cut me a break...what was the repercussion anyway?
>
> I can see that life is much simpler when one denies that
> our own
> government is spying on its citizens, torturing and
> murdering prisoners
> and lying to the public about the reasons for going to war
> and instead
> wants to point fingers at other countries.
>
> I can see that life is much simpler when we blame our own
> government for
> all of these things but we are our government and they are
> we. We allow
> them to do these things.
>
> Craig
>
>
> --
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