Re: Certifications as a means of gaining knowlage

Nothing urks me more than someone who posts their resume in their
signature. If your a doctor than fine have md dds whatever you earned
it but to be

John Doe - mcp ccse naacp aamco

Seriously...

A lot of companies still want a+ but simply need monkeys who can plug
in wires. I would often rather teach an intuitive newb than deal with
a certified idiot who knows how to pass tests.

Just my 3.14 cents

On 6/28/09, Larry Lauer <rewwt@msn.com> wrote:
> I just realized that when I first sent this my phone didn't reply to the
> list. Sorry David for the multiple copies.
>
>
>
> Hi all I have just been a list voyeur for awhile. I was wondering if others
> are pursuing any Linux certifications now and if there are any study groups
> -classes going that you may know of. Thanks.
>
>
>
> I also have collected over the years some certs from Novell, Cisco, sans,
> M$.... It has cost a ton but I think that it has been worth it by getting me
> interviews and jobs. Now I want to focus on Linux and security more.
>
>
>
> I think employers also see a certification as your potential to follow
> through with what you start and a basic understanding like David said.
>
>
>
> Enough of my rambling. Thanks.
>
>
>
> -Larry
>
> Sent from my BlackBerryR smartphone with SprintSpeed
>
>
>
>
>
> From: plug-discuss-bounces@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> [mailto:plug-discuss-bounces@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of David
> Munson
> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:15 PM
> To: Main PLUG discussion list
> Subject: Re: Certifications as a means of gaining knowlage
>
>
>
> Certifications can be useful for getting your foot in the door when you may
> not have the experience yet. Granted, most certifications say you should
> have X amount of time doing Y type of work, but I had very little experience
> with the subject matter when I passed the A+ and Network+ certifications.
> When I go after a certification, it's because I'm looking to get a handle on
> the basics for jobs related to it, and because it's something to point to
> when I talk to HR about my qualifications.
>
>
>
> Additionally, certifications SUGGEST that you have a certain level of
> knowledge about a set of topics. I can spend six months doing network
> support work and never learn a thing about fiber if I'm at a small business,
> but a Network+ certification SUGGESTS that I at least know the difference
> between SC and MTRJ connectors, as well as single-mode and multimode fiber.
>
>
>
> To put it in fewer words, certifications are good for covering the basics of
> a subject, and might get you an interview, but it's the actual experience
> that'll probably land you the job.
>
> On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Bryan O'Neal <boneal@cornerstonehome.com>
> wrote:
>
> I too do not believe certifications are worth much. With the exception of a
> selling point to customers who don't know better or to help lower your
> insurance premiums. That said they CAN be a good path to focus your
> learning and gain knowledge however that knowledge is not usually worth more
> then a few months of intensive on the job training.
>
> On a side note I am mojor pet peve, in that I hate companies that requier
> certain certifications for emplyment... If I were to colect ever cert I have
> seen "requierd" for job I was otherwise well qualified for I would have to
> spend about two years and about $100K to obtain them. At which point I could
> get a few years of use and then have to repeat the process ;)
>
> If you want your people to have a prticuler cert you higher the person and
> make continued employment contengent on getting the cert.
>
> On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 6:49 AM, Lisa Kachold <lisakachold@obnosis.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Steve Phariss <sphariss@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Question to the group.
>
> I know that certificates in and of themselves are not a good indicator of
> skill. But are they a worthwhile goal for knowlege sake? In particular, I
> have been faced with a couple jobs that required Vertualization skills. I
> have very little enterprise experience with vertulization so was concidering
> taking a bootcamp course that concludes with a vertulization cert (Certified
> Virtualization ExpertT -CVET)
>
> Does anyone have any experience with the CVE or Bootcamp classes in general?
>
>
> Steve
>
> In the old days, we had what were considered "academics". These were the
> people who could stand around and spout a million useless details about
> technology, but in the actual trenches, had no if/then/therefore logical
> skills. They were like autistics, in that they could memorize rote, but it
> often seemed as if the people who actually could excel at the times when
> someone had to pull raw intelligence and creativity out of a hat, they
> failed horribly.
>
> The people who actually had to work in the fields often found the
> certifications to be far from what was required to actually master a subject
> - epic fail for those selling technology or selling management that
> certifications were actually a good gauge of mastery.
>
> So, what started to happen was people who actually were deeply immersed in
> technology started to attend bootcamps which were given often during a
> convention, where a full immersal of the student into the subject matter's
> pure "academics" would occur, whereupon all the useless facts that are never
> used when implementing and maintaining the technology get retained just long
> enough to pass the certification. In this way, everyone could give a Class
> A subnet answer (even in the days when everyone only used Class C
> subnetting) for instance for a Cisco CCNA (which I obtained in 1999).
>
> I certified in IBM High Speed Networking Technology in the 1980's at USBank,
> and it was a complete exercise in rote memorization. I certified on
> Websphere V in 2006, and nothing had really changed; little on the test
> actually translated to being able to manage application servers in any real
> world shop.
>
> I doubt very much this has changed with regard to Virtualization quizzes -
> except that Linux certifications are generally excellent (especially the
> RHCE - which is a complete PRACTICAL test, no reference materials are
> allowed, and the student must master the subject on a virtual slice or real
> machine during the test). A RHCE is sold to businesses as a way to get a
> cheaper rate on their RHEL licenses. I was hired in a contract gig to build
> new application servers (8 Prod/Dev + 1 database all Dell 1950's 2850's) and
> clean up Apache security and little Linux issues while they sent their
> Microsoft staff to RHCE Fast Track school (Choicehotels.com):
>
> http://www.supershareware.com/info/whizlabs-rhce--red-hat-linux-certificatio
> n--exam-simulator.html
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/16314048/RHCE-Red-Hat-Certified-Engineer-Linux-100
> -Success-Secrets-on-RHCE-Linux-Test-Preparation-Study-Guides-Practice-Exams-
> Braindumps-Certification-Exa
> https://www.redhat.com/certification/rhce/?s_kwcid=TC|3636|rhce||S|p|3282576
> 651
> <https://www.redhat.com/certification/rhce/?s_kwcid=TC%7C3636%7Crhce%7C%7CS%
> 7Cp%7C3282576651>
> www.linuxlearningcentre.com/content/prepguide.pdf
>
> The RHCE fast track (5 day type of bootcamp) is the best way to certify as
> well because Linux people generally don't require a 3 month class, and
> simply get in and do things quickly to grasp a course:
> https://www.redhat.com/courses/rh300_rhce_rapid_track_course_and_rhce_exam/
>
>
> Certifications have been critisized for being "marketing manipulation"
> rather than actual gauges of skill. For instance, a company will sell
> certifications when a product is big, and require certifications for cheaper
> rates.
>
> But if you don't already have a good history with certifications and your
> goal is simply to get a grasp of the technology, a certification is suspect,
> as a solution.
>
> Currently virtualization providers are fighting it out over a "new hot
> market". And the technology is relatively young (unless you are IBM). So,
> Microsoft, XEN and Vmware --- you get the idea from the "Products of the
> Year 2008":
>
>     
>     
>
> GOLD AWARD:
>
> VMware ESXi 3.5 U2
> <http://searchservervirtualization.techtarget.com/productsOfTheYearWinner/0,
> 296407,sid94_gci1345772_tax312925_ayr2008,00.html>
> VMware's free ESXi leads the virtualization platform market by continuing to
> offer the greatest functionality and highest value of all hypervisors
> available on today's market.
> READ MORE
> <http://searchservervirtualization.techtarget.com/productsOfTheYearWinner/0,
> 296407,sid94_gci1345772_tax312925_ayr2008,00.html>
>
>
> SILVER AWARD:
>
> Microsoft Hyper-V 1.0
> <http://searchservervirtualization.techtarget.com/productsOfTheYearWinner/0,
> 296407,sid94_gci1345773_tax312925_ayr2008,00.html>
> "Microsoft's standalone Hyper-V is a great option for a free hypervisor,"
> one judge wrote. "I give Microsoft a lot of credit for such a strong new
> showing."
> READ MORE
> <http://searchservervirtualization.techtarget.com/productsOfTheYearWinner/0,
> 296407,sid94_gci1345773_tax312925_ayr2008,00.html>
>
>
> BRONZE AWARD:
>
> Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5.2
> <http://searchservervirtualization.techtarget.com/productsOfTheYearWinner/0,
> 296407,sid94_gci1345774_tax312925_ayr2008,00.html>
> If Linux is your bag, then the Xen-based virtualization bundled with Red
> Hat's enterprise offering is a high-performance virtualization option and
> excellent value, judges reported.
> READ MORE
> <http://searchservervirtualization.techtarget.com/productsOfTheYearWinner/0,
> 296407,sid94_gci1345774_tax312925_ayr2008,00.html>
>
>
>
> I would get a general linux certification before I would get a
> virtualization certification.
>
> And since you are asking, I would point you to the RHCE.
>
> (503)754-4452 wiki.obnosis.com
> scientology.obnosis.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
>
>
>


--
James Finstrom
Rhino Equipment Corp.
http://rhinoequipment.com ~ http://postug.com
Phone: 1-877-RHINO-T1 ~ FAX: +1 (480) 961-1826
Twitter: http://twitter.com/rhinoequipment
IP: guest@asterisk.rhinoequipment.com
---------------------------------------------------
PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss