On Thu, 2009-01-22 at 09:10 -0800, keith smith wrote:
> I think we tend to look at Microsoft and a $150 license fee for XP or
> Vista as a lot of money. There are other costs to consider. What is
> your time worth?
----
Neither XP nor Vista gets $150 for Microsoft if OEM. Only the retail
version (miniscule sales comparatively). I'll get the the point of value
later.
----
> Most people do not have the need nor the desire to learn Linux.
----
Most people don't care and don't know much about using Windows either.
All most people want is a computer that runs, that they don't have to
know much to use. I believe ESR labels this as Aunt Tilly
----
> I personally like the Windows operating system for my desk top. I run
> Linux on my LAMP dev box.
>
> To me, as it probably is for most people, is a simple business
> decision. I was M$ free for 8 months in 2000. Last year I tried it
> again. My favorite code editor only runs on Windows. I hated running
> IE in wine (I need it for cross browser testing). I spent tons of
> time configuring my Linux network and spend lots of time to make it
> work efficiently. In the end I re-loaded XP on my desk top and have
> enjoyed the mix of M$ and Linux, each meeting q specific need.
>
> Why buy a nail gun at extra cost when a hammer will do the same job
> for less?
----
OK - lots of ground here.
No one can fault you for the choices you make and I would concede that
you have made efforts to learn to use Linux and are in a better position
than most people on making a knowledgeable decision.
I too have a Windows desktop and specifically chose to buy the Acer
Aspire One with a Windows XP installation on it which I will use rarely.
The issues for me are not simply usability because I could easily use
any of them - meaning Linux, Windows or Macintosh. There really isn't
that much difference in the basic application suite whether it's
browsing the Internet, e-mail, word processing, spreadsheets, etc.
As far as coding goes, there are so many philosophies that it's
impossible for anyone to know what is right for someone else's usage.
For myself, I find that different programs do different things better
than the others and I tend to learn when adapting to a new technology
but yes, it does cost time to learn new technology but with it comes new
abilities too.
The thing that I find inspiring about Linux is that each application
typically doesn't re-invent the wheel but builds upon other things that
already exist.
For example, regular expressions - an area that I still am weak but I do
get better at them and I appreciate using various tools such as grep or
ruby and then OpenOffice.org implements regular expressions and I find
some comfort in the similarity. Sometimes with Windows or Macintosh, it
makes me crazy to have to implement a different pattern of usage for
each tool.
All of comments above though completely are unresponsive to the comments
you are making about cost. There are so many costs to a proprietary
operating system that no one really discusses as if they don't
exist...but they do. There's the initial acquisition cost. There's the
cost of support (try getting an answer from Microsoft or Apple). There's
the 'upgrade' costs. There's the non-transferable licenses. There's the
cost of having to buy a separate copy of the OS and each application for
each computer you own (it's fairly common to own a desktop and a
laptop). There's the cost of making 're-installation disks' because the
machine you bought doesn't come with re-installation media and you have
to make it yourself. There's performance costs which are especially
painful when you install SP3 on WinXP or any version of Vista because it
does so many legitimacy checks when launching programs, loading device
drivers, etc.
All of the comments above also do not take into account the insult of
the EULA which suggests that companies have the ultimate right to decide
what I may or may not do, media I may or may not play on my computer.
Anyone who believes that this is solely the province of Microsoft should
note that the newer Apple notebooks have also implemented DRM.
These companies don't mind limiting what their customers can do because
they want to become the keepers of the keys to the software/media and in
the end, their software design decisions are at odds with enabling their
consumers.
And last but hardly least...when I have a question about OpenLDAP, I can
get answers from the authors of the software. When I have a question
about proprietary software, if I don't have to 'pay' for support (and
it's becoming very common to do so), I still only get some person who
has a support script and it's highly unlikely that my questions will
ever get to someone who actually knows the answer. Of course, with
proprietary software, I have no ability to modify and change the source
code to fix any known bugs or for my own personal needs.
----
> Two comments on pirating:
>
> 1) The creators of dBase found out in the late 80's that pirating
> actually improved sales. During the time most software came with a
> copy protection. The copy protection made installs more tedious and
> difficult. Several applications were developed to make by passing the
> copy protection possible.
>
> In the end most software companies removed the copy protection.
> Ashton-Tate the creators of dBase stated their sales when up once the
> copy protection was removed. They attributed this increase to people
> sharing their copy of dBase with others giving them a chance to try
> the product. Once they saw it was something they could use they
> bought it.
----
whether this was true or not is completely besides the point.
1 - you are talking about the 1980's and early 90's and computers and
software are simply commodities today.
2 - piracy takes many more forms than just copying a program from one
computer to another.
----
> 2) Pirating hurts everyone just like shoplifting cost all of us.
> There is a lot of quality free software out there. And there is a lot
> of quality proprietary software out there. I do not see a day when ALL
> software is free. For one cooperate America would not have it that
> way. The real model I see emerging is the two feature set software.
> The lower or lesser featured application is free. The upgraded
> software is fee based. I think this is a great model that provides
> simple software for a simple need. It also creates a revenue stream
> and an incentive for the developer.
----
You see what you want to see and believe what you want to believe.
Yes, installing an illegal copy of Microsoft Windows might be cheating
Microsoft out of sale but it might be cheating Ubuntu out of an install.
Who is to know that?
Stealing an illegal copy of Microsoft Office might be cheating Microsoft
out of a sale but it might be cheating OpenOffice.org out of an install.
Who is to know that?
You speak in absolutes but I dispute your conclusions absolutely.
Open source software will eventually replace virtually all applications
and operating systems...it's only a matter of time.
----
> Think of this. What if M$ offered a very slimmed down version of
> office for free and a more feature rich version for a fee. That would
> be a great thing in that I could have what I need in Office, simple
> word and simple excel, while meeting the needs of people who need all
> those advanced features.
----
they do - it's called Home and Student version - $135
http://www.pcconnection.com/IPA/Shop/Product/Detail.htm?sku=7320955&br=14
Your argument is ignorant of this fact.
----
> On a side note I do not want to purchase office, however, those I work
> with send me office documents. As a work around I use the free reader
> provided by M$. Not as effective as I would like. Office is $400
> full retail. It is purely a business decision. Is it worth my time
> to copy those documents to Open-Office? At this point it is. If I
> received documents daily it would not be.
----
see above but OpenOffice.org is free and opens any of those documents
already.
Microsoft Office is essentially a dead product. Their sales are tanking.
OpenOffice.org has made it a meaningless purchase. Anyone who buys
Microsoft Office today does so out of indifference, ignorance of
OpenOffice.org or for status.
The only items in Microsoft arsenal these days are:
- Windows, huge installed base and some really nice business features
like SUSA, GPO, WAIK, etc. Apple is so far behind here that I laugh
every time someone mentions them as an alternative for business.
- Exchange server and Outlook, it's proprietary, expensive, stupid but
people get sucked into Outlook and Exchange server makes it somewhat
functional and crippled when you don't use Exchange server.
If you have specific applications that you feel you need to run and are
only on Windows, I sort of get that.
If you are comfortable in the Windows desktop environment and all you
want to do is use a computer without having to become a computer expert,
I get that.
At some point in time, it becomes obvious that Microsoft disfavors the
consumer and favors the RIAA/MPAA/Microsoft, that these companies will
sell you the same software over and over again while making you consent
to actually never owning software and merely possess a license to use it
on a specific computer in a specific manner in a specific period of
time. At some point, people say - enough.
Lastly I will say this and it sort of brings us back to the very
original post on the subject...the shift to netbooks is hurting
Microsoft because they have to compete with Linux on very cheap turf.
Their sales are shrinking dramatically. Their profits sucked this last
quarter and they have announced that they will not issue any sales
forecasts for the present. If the economy performs as poorly as it
appears to be headed, Linux will bury Microsoft very quickly because
they simply cannot compete with free. While they were profitable, they
could afford to subsidize losses on virtually everything but Office and
Windows but they're quickly running out of time.
My suggestion...don't buy Microsoft stock
Craig
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