Re: xpistub

JD Austin wrote:

> Lynn David Newton wrote:
>
>> >> QUESTION 1: What are the chances that installing
>> >> *any* Linux distro on this system will go as
>> >> smooth as glass and allow me to get right back to
>> >> work?
>>
>> >> ANSWER 1: 99.999% likely to fail.
>>
>> jd> ... Either -> go buy an external USB drive, make
>> jd> a complete backup of anything important (just
>> jd> back up the whole thing to an image). Or ->buy a
>> jd> new drive ...
>>
>> Ah yes. Many proposed solutions to problems begin with
>> "go buy". The truth is I'd love to buy a whole big new
>> system, but can't spare a dollar for a McDonald's ice
>> cream right now.
>>
>>
> Another hard drive can be had for cheap. No need to replace the whole
> machine unless we're talking early 90's technology.
> If you have enough disk space you could also create a partition and
> install your new install there,
> but it isn't as safe as a separate disk.
>
> If money's the issue, Im sure we could come up with a drive or take up a
> collection to buy one.
> How big is your existing drive, what machine is it in, etc?
>
>> >> QUESTION 2: What are the chances that installing
>> >> *any* Linux distro on this system with the
>> >> assistance of people at an Installfest will go as
>> >> smooth as glass and allow me to get right back to
>> >> work?
>>
>> >> ANSWER 2: 99.991% likely to fail.
>>
>> jd> Wow, you're a pessimistic fellow :)
>> Far from it, actually. I tend to be polyannishly
>> optimistic. That's why I installed RH 8.0, and got
>> myself locked into an "upgrade" that was inferior to
>> its predecessor and has left me crippled ever since.
>>
>>
> Come now, you're not the first person to upgrade from RH8 to
> fedora/whatever.
> 99% of the work is done. You just have to seek out the information.
> Spend a few days doing research and begin.
>
>
>> jd> willing to help you personally to get it done.
>>
>> Thanks for the offer.
>>
>> >> Those odds aren't good enough.
>>
>> jd> Your odds are based on speculation.
>>
>> They're based on 20 years of professional experience
>> with Unix and Linux systems. But it's been a couple of
>> years since I've done much along the lines of system
>> installation, configuration, admin, IT, etc. I used to
>> do it all the time, but now I spend my time actually
>> getting real work done, and have forgotten about 50% of
>> what I knew about building systems. And I don't bother
>> to keep up with all the differences regarding the
>> distros. Got no reason to do it.
>>
>>
>>
> I've been in IT about as long (well it was called Data Processing back
> then) **planning** solves almost any IT problem.
> You're not talking a major mainframe upgrade here, there are no
> department or functional people's BS to deal with,
> its your machine. It's not like you're migrating from OS/2 to Linux..
> its linux to linux.
> As long as you give yourself a margin of safety - like plugging in a new
> drive, making it the master, and switching the jumper on the other drive
> to make it a slave (or back up the whole drive some other way) - worst
> case is you revert back to what you have now.
>
> Linux OS installs have become a lot easier in the last couple of years,
> especially Redhat, mandrake, and a few others.
>
> Debian is still a bear because it has the old school installer, but even
> with that, if you make a list of the hardware the machine has,
> what drivers it uses now, poke around on google a bit, its a non issue.
> The main reason I went with Fedora is becaue I had no clue what hardware
> it had.
>
>> jd> Great argument for a second drive. Then you could
>> jd> leave it alone until you're done.
>>
>> Lovely. Even better argument for a new system. You can
>> only boot off one drive at a time. Life is to short to
>> spend it watching systems reboot.
>>
>>
> Five minutes max for a reboot. I didn't say dual boot, just put the old
> drive in as a slave and don't touch it.
> Load a fresh install of you linux distro of choice on the new drive and
> when you're done you can copy over your work from
> the original un-molested drive.
>
> Im sure you're not running the most up to date hardware and you said
> you're not made of money, so a new drive ($100 max, if you look for a
> sale) is far cheaper than a new system.
>
>> >> I was planning on Debian. Not real familiar with
>> >> GenToo, other than I've heard positive things
>> >> about it from technically savy people.
>>

>>  jd> I love Debian, but the installer still sucks.
>> That's why I'd like to have it done at an Installfest.
>> At least there will be someone there who has done it.
>> After that I can learn to maintain it myself.
>>                             Thanks for the encouragement.

>>
>>
>>
> You'll be fine. If you've been using RH8 all this time, you'll like
> fedora better.
> Since you're already familliar with Redhat, stick with that.
>
>
> JD
>
Ok, Lynn.

I've seen your posts on the list for some time now, and I honestly have
to say that I'm impressed. You've used Linux for so long that you have
my (sympathy and) respect. I'm determined to help you out, with the help
of others.

I've read Kyle's and JD's replies, and I concur whole heartedly. So it's
time to "put your money where your mouth is" (no insult intended). If
you're willing to come to Installfest on Saturday, I'll "loan" you a 40G
HDD (brand new or slightly used) to use for your interim migration (and
after). The only problem, as I see it, is that you've gotta decide to do
it (or not).

Here's the deal. If you really want to upgrade, we'll help you out on
Saturday and make every effort to get your system running to your
expectation with whatever distro you choose (I'm with JD, stick with
RH/FC because that's what you know) on the "loaned" HDD. Keep in mind,
dual booting is *not* a long term solution, I agree. However, mounting a
(non-NTFS) partition is trivial. You can even have your "old" hdd
partition(s) mounted read-only if that makes you sleep better. ;) Of
course in every case, your original HDD would remain as is. (There is a
risk, of course, in transportation).

In order to prepare for building your new system, there are two
considerations: hardware and software. This is just a workstation, no?
I'm not envisioning a server of any kind, as then there would be client
considerations.

Given that you're already running RH8, hardware should be a no brainer
(unless you have some esoteric device configuration).

The second consideration is software. In order to do a successful (and
safe) upgrade, you should inventory all of the software that you have
(use?) on your current system (did someone mention the word "plan"?). A
place to start might be doing an "rpm -qa" command, but that's a bit
intimidating, as the list likely numbers in the 100's. That list will
tell you every package that's on your system, looking from the bottom
up. Of course, if you've built some software yourself (./configure &&
make && make install), you'll need to add that to the list.

A simpler way to inventory your software (system) would be top down.
What software is it that you actually use? I can only guess, but I'm
sure that you can make a list that's far more managable than what "rpm
-qa" lists. Start with the highest top level(s) you can name, such as
your email, web browser, text, spreadsheet, etc. (I've no idea what it
is you do). Think of the things that you absolutely can't live without
(I know, everything). Think of software that you use which may have made
you reluctant to upgrade. Make a list. I don't mean to make this sound
simplistic, it's not, especially when your income is on the line. If
you're packaging software for others, it could be especially difficult.

If you can come up with such a list by Friday (tomorrow sometime), I can
assure you that we (who we, kemosabe?) will make every effort to get you
going. Like I said, I'll even "loan" you the HDD. If not this weekend,
there's always next month.

What've you got to lose? Well, that's the 'else' part. If you accept the
offer, I'll expect you to publicly (on the list) adjust your estimates
of success. It's a whole new Linux out there!

-- 
-Eric 'shubes'
"There is no such thing as the People;
  it is a collectivist myth.
  There are only individual citizens
  with individual wills
  and individual purposes."
-William E. Simon (1927-2000),
     Secretary of the Treasury (1974-1977)
  "A Time For Truth" (1978), pg. 237

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