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Tom,
I'm sorry, I haven't read this entire thread (I got behind, and this is
one mailing list you can't get behind with :)
I don't think that anyone is asking you to ignore the problems with
Linux, personally I would be upset if you did. Unless we embrace the
problems, they will never get fixed. Unfortunately, most of what your
going to hear here, is how to get it to work, not how to fix it. There
is also work going on to fix it, but that takes longer.
One example of this is the printers stuff. You brought up a great point
that printers are just too damn hard in Linux, and there isn't a good
reason why they should be so hard. Alot of this steams from the Unix
world where their was lpr, and Linux was trying to be Unix and so it had
an lpr also. Many people spent a lot of time and made the best lpr that
anyone had ever seen, but that was still limited. Xerox (and others)
made a protocol called the Internet Printing Protocol (IPP), this is
supported on Windows, but it was embraced on Unix by a project called
CUPS (Common Unix Printing System). This group created a great backend
that had all IPP, and it also had a lpr command for those who wanted it
:) CUPS is currently also used in Mac OS X. But still, on Linux,
adding a printer was not 'Grandma Easy.' Now, if you look at the Ximian
Desktop 2, it has gotten that easy. Someone has done the work. In
probably the next couple of releases of other distributions you'll see
that work roll out to everyone.
I guess that was a long way of saying, there are problems, we're working
on them, we appreciate your patience.
On Microsoft, they aren't perfect either. And while there are many
people in the Linux community hate Microsoft because they are Microsoft,
most don't. I think that most get frustrated by different things in the
MS OSes. Just like any e-mail list, there is static and there is noise,
don't assume that's the majority opinion.
I hope that you'll have success with Linux, I think you'll find it's a
nice place to be when you get it all figured out. But it's not a
trivial learning curve, atleast not yet.
--Ted
On Fri, 2003-06-13 at 07:12, Tom Achtenberg wrote:
> I'm still here because I don't like to give up on something before I exha=
ust all possibilities. I keep hearing from a few people how wonderful and =
easy to use Linux is and I'd like to see it. I agree with the concept of o=
pen source. Unfortunately I have yet to find Linux to be so fantastic or e=
xperience all the negative I've heard from this group about Microsoft and R=
ed Hat. =20
>=20
> What does bother me is you have some people on this list complaining abou=
t Microsoft for all it's alleged problems and at the same time ignoring all=
the hoops they need to jump through to run Linux. By this I mean things l=
ike recompiling the kernel to get a printer to work etc. What's the differ=
ence between doing that and tweaking something in Windows? Why is one acce=
ptable and the other is not? I also don't like all the complaining some of=
these people do about commercial software (meaning any software you have t=
o pay for) and at the same time complaining about all the out of work progr=
ammers.
>=20
> I'm trying to give Linux a chance for my desktop but I'm not going to sit=
back and listen to all the Microsoft bashing and ignore all the blatant sh=
ort comings of the Linux desktop. For someone like me who uses several ema=
il accounts and discussion lists, Kmail is the best email client I've seen.=
If I can ever get my Linux desktop stable enough to rely on it will becom=
e my email client of choice. =20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl Parrish [mailto:cparrish@carlparrish.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 4:16 PM
> To: Plug-discuss
> Subject: RE: Good Bye Gnome, Hello KDE, I hope
>=20
>=20
> Tom I don't mean to be rude but why are you still here? I mean you've
> been complaining about Linux for over a year I have to wonder why you're
> on a linux mailing list.=20
>=20
> Carl P.=20
>=20
> On Thu, 2003-06-12 at 13:08, Tom Achtenberg wrote:
> > Phil, I had the same problems with my RH 7.3 box. It was much less st=
able than my Windows 98 box! I finally gave up. I'm now trying Mandrake 9=
.1. It took 4 days and several attempts to get the install completed witho=
ut errors. (Found the disk 1 iso on the Hawaii mirror is bad too.) I have=
n't had much time to work with it yet, but it has been a disappointment too=
. Mandrake update doesn't work to start with. The whole task bar at the b=
ottom of the screen keeps disappearing too. Only way to get it back is to =
log off and log back on. This same box would run for weeks on Win 98 with =
no errors. I have not even tried to connect to my file server or printers =
yet. If I cannot do it without manually editing files I'll probably just p=
ut Windows back on and forget about Linux for a desktop.
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Phil Mattison [mailto:mattison@ohmikron.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 12:58 PM
> > To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> > Subject: Re: Good Bye Gnome, Hello KDE, I hope
> >=20
> >=20
> > Here's my chance to do a little whining. I've been having problems with=
both
> > Gnome and KDE on a development server I have (RH7.3). I hardly ever use
> > either, but it seems whenever I use either for much more than reading e=
mail
> > the system tends to become unstable, may even crash sometimes, or the d=
isk
> > gets corrupted and requires repair on the next boot. Not very impressiv=
e for
> > a system reputed to be sooooo stable.
> > --Phil M.
> >=20
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: George Gambill <ggambill@computer-guidance.com>
> > To: <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 10:20 AM
> > Subject: Good Bye Gnome, Hello KDE, I hope
> >=20
> >=20
> > > I want to change from Gnome to KDE (RH 8). I have been lead to belie=
ve
> > > Gnome (at least under LTSP) has a memory leak.
> > >
> > > I thought I could insert the RH 8 CD, boot, select upgrade with the
> > > customize box checked and then down stream a ways (in the screens) se=
lect
> > > (check) KDE with some minor shuck'n and jive'n after the upgrade. As=
I go
> > > through the screens (Tree View), nothing is checked. I expected to s=
ee
> > the
> > > existing packages checked. I canceled.
> > >
> > > Is there an easier way? FWIW, this box happens to be an LTSP server.
> > This
> > > is the box I hope to bring to the next InstallFest for demonstration
> > (LTSP)
> > > purposes, if that an LTSP demo is deemed worthy.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > George Wayne Gambill ... Registered Linux User: #311028
> > > ---------------------------------------------------
> > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change you mail settings:
> > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >=20
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change you mail settings:
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change you mail settings:
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
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