I was wondering because I do know a civil attorney that might take it on
but since I don't know for sure, I will call him anyway just to see.
Kimi
At 6/19/02, you wrote:
>>IMHO, which is decidedly non-legal, I think that debarment proceedings are
>neither civil nor criminal, but rather a violation of procurement rules. I
>could be wrong, but if my reading of the procurement rules is accurate, MS
>could be debarred from contracting with the state, its departments, its
>school districts, and its cities and municipalities.
>
>On Wednesday 19 June 2002 09:34, you wrote:
> > Would this be civil?
> >
> > Kimi
> >
> > At 6/19/02, you wrote:
> > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > >Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > >According to the state administrative rules, it looks like most if not all
> > > of the school districts could be required to initiate debarment
> > > proceedings against MS. Anyone know an attorney who is willing to take
> > > something like this on pro-bono?
> > >
> > >On Tuesday 18 June 2002 21:39, you wrote:
> > > > Here is the response I received from David Cantelme, Deer Valley school
> > > > board member. He is the one who has arizonalawinstitute@yahoo.com as
> > > > his email address. It sounds to me that all the school districts and
> > > > the state itself should be starting debarment proceedings against MS.
> > > > We need to start contacting the legislators, Attorney General's office
> > > > and your local school superintendents.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "david cantelme" <arizonalawinstitute@yahoo.com>
> > > > To: "Tom Achtenberg" <tom@mrhsband.org>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 6:08 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: Computer Purchasing Guidelines
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dear Mr. Actenburg:
> > > >
> > > > They do not, but similar rules found in the state
> > > > school district procurement rules do apply. Both sets
> > > > of rules have their origen in the state procurement
> > > > code. You can find the school district procurement
> > > > rules by going to the secretary of state web site.
> > > > Click on administrative rules. Go to title seven.
> > > > Then scroll down to R7-2-1001. That's where the rules
> > > > begin. They continue to about R7-2-1175.
> > > >
> > > > Debarment procedures do exist in the school district
> > > > procurement rules. You would need to address your
> > > > comments on debarment to the adminsitration. That's
> > > > who would initiate the procedure. If the
> > > > administration initiates a debarment procedure, the
> > > > board determines whether to appoint a hearing officer.
> > > > It goes from there to the officer with appropriate
> > > > due process to the contractor. The board itself has
> > > > no involvement in the hearing process. The officer
> > > > must be independent to ensure a fair hearing under our
> > > > constitutional system.
> > > >
> > > > --- Tom Achtenberg <tom@mrhsband.org> wrote:
> > > > > I was wondering if the Maricopa County purchasing
> > > > > policies listed below apply
> > > > > to DVUSD purchasing pprocedures?
> > > > >
> > > > > Maricopa County policies. Interesting references:
> > > > >
> > > > > MC1-101 DEFINITIONS
> > > > > 25."CONTRACTOR" means any Person who has a Contract
> > > > > with a County
> > > > > Governmental unit. For purposes of Article 5,
> > > > > Contractor may also mean
> > > > > Respondent as defined in this Article.
> > > > > 36."DEBARMENT" means an action taken by the County
> > > > > Administrative
> > > > > Officer under MC1-902 to prohibit a Person from
> > > > > Participating in
> > > > > Maricopa County Procurements.
> > > > > 80."PERSON" means any corporation, Business,
> > > > > individual, union,
> > > > > committee, club, other organization or group of
> > > > > individuals.
> > > > > 113."SUSPENSION" means an action taken by the County
> > > > > Administrative
> > > > > Officer under MC1-902 temporarily disqualifying a
> > > > > Person from
> > > > > participating in Maricopa County Procurements.
> > > >
> > > > http://maricopa.gov/materials/p-code/HTML_code/Code-01.htm
> > > >
> > > > > [Microsoft is considered a Contractor and a Person.
> > > > > This is important
> > > > > below.]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > MC1-407 MAXIMUM PRACTICABLE COMPETITION
> > > > > All Specifications shall seek to promote overall
> > > > > economy for the purpose
> > > > > intended and encourage competition in satisfying
> > > > > Maricopa County's needs
> > > > > and shall not be unduly restrictive.
> > > >
> > > > http://maricopa.gov/materials/p-code/HTML_code/Code-04.htm#MC1-401
> > > >
> > > > > [Is there any technology that is Microsoft
> > > > > exclusive? I believe there
> > > > > are sites that explain how to replace Exchange
> > > > > Server completely using
> > > > > Linux/OSS with Qmail; and SQL Server is replaceable
> > > > > with mySQL or PostgreSQL;
> > > > > IIS & ASP is replaceable with Apache & PHP, The MS
> > > > > Office suite is
> > > > > replaceable with the very comparable Open Office
> > > > > suite.]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > MC1-902 DEBARMENT AND SUSPENSION OF CONTRACTORS
> > > > > B. The causes for Debarment or Suspension shall
> > > > > include, but are not
> > > > > limited to, the following:
> > > > > 2. Conviction of any Person or any subsidiary or
> > > > > affiliate of any Person
> > > > > under any statute of the Federal government, this
> > > > > State or its political
> > > > > subdivision or any other State for:
> > > > > k. Any other offense indicating a lack of business
> > > > > integrity or business
> > > > > honesty which affects responsibility as a
> > > > > Contractor.
> > > > > 3. Conviction or civil judgment finding a violation
> > > > > by any Person or any
> > > > > subsidiary or affiliate of any Person under State or
> > > > > Federal Antitrust
> > > > > Statutes.
> > > >
> > > > http://maricopa.gov/materials/p-code/HTML_code/Code-09.htm#MC1-901
> > > >
> > > > > As I read MC1-902.B.3, Microsoft (a Person), having
> > > > > been convicted of a
> > > > > violation of Federal Antitrust Statues, cannot be a
> > > > > County Contractor.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are many alternatives to Microsofts products.
> > > > > Alternatives that have
> > > > > broken no laws, Federal or Local, are well supported
> > > > > and used by many large
> > > > > governments (Germany, Taiwan, et al). As a
> > > > > concerned voter in the DVUSD, I
> > > > > must point out that I cannot support criminal
> > > > > behavior and would hope that my
> > > > > Governing Board would see fit to do the same and
> > > > > ONLY consider alternatives
> > > > > as Microsoft is clearly unqualified to meet District
> > > > > requirements.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank You,
> > > > >
> > > > > Tom Achtenberg
> > > > >
> > > > > PS this message was written ans sent to you using a
> > > > > computer that is 100%
> > > > > Microsoft free. It uses the Red Hat Linux 7.3
> > > > > operating system, KDE windows
> > > > > like desktop and the K-mail email client. All if
> > > > > these programs come under
> > > > > the "General Public License" which means they are
> > > > > 100% free to the public for
> > > > > personal and commercial use.
> > > > > --
> > > > > Visit the Mountain Ridge Band Site at
> > > >
> > > > http://www.mrhsband.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> > > > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > > Version: 6.0.371 / Virus Database: 206 - Release Date: 6/13/2002
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________________________
> > > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't
> > > > post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
> > > >
> > > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> > >
> > >- --
> > >Jim
> > >
> > >Freedom is worth protecting
> > >
> > >> > >________________________________________________
> > >See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't
> > >post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
> > >
> > >PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> > >http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >
> > ________________________________________________
> > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't
> > post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
> >
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
>- --
>Jim
>
>Freedom is worth protecting
>
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