Good place for CHEAP (yet warrantied) computers?

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Author: Michelle Lowman
Date:  
Subject: Good place for CHEAP (yet warrantied) computers?

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Today's Topics:

1. The Stallman Factor ()
2. Re: The Stallman Factor (Matt Alexander)
3. Re: a hopefully simple question (Kevin Brown)
4. Re: a hopefully simple question (robert jorgenson)
5. Re: The Stallman Factor (Victor Odhner)
6. Re: [PLUG-announce]Sequoia Meeting Tonight (technomage)
7. Good place for CHEAP (yet warrantied) computers? (Kurt Granroth)
8. Sequoia (Jim)
9. Re: Good place for CHEAP (yet warrantied) computers? (Jim)
10. Re: Good place for CHEAP (yet warrantied) computers? (robert
jorgenson)
11. Re: Good place for CHEAP (yet warrantied) computers? (Kevin Brown)
12. Re: what is a virtual network (George Toft)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 14:30:21 -0400
From: <>
To:
Subject: The Stallman Factor
Reply-To:

In light of our recent RMS discussions in this forum, I thought this article
interesting enough to point out.

<quote>
The Stallman factor
The FSF wants to proclaim the good news of free software's benefits. Its
tactics cause it to miss the mark

Summary
Mention RMS in a Linux crowd and you'll find people who love him, hate him,
and those who simply roll their eyes. People call him a whacko, egotist,
genius, saint, and communist. Precious few are ambivalent about Richard
Stallman. (1,200 words)
</quote>

http://http://www.linuxworld.com/site-stories/2002/0508.rms.html

Alan

--__--__--

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 11:46:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt Alexander <>
To: <>
Subject: Re: The Stallman Factor
Reply-To:

Also being covered on Slashdot...



On Thu, 9 May 2002 wrote:

> In light of our recent RMS discussions in this forum, I thought this
article interesting enough to point out.
>
> <quote>
> The Stallman factor
> The FSF wants to proclaim the good news of free software's benefits. Its
tactics cause it to miss the mark
>
> Summary
> Mention RMS in a Linux crowd and you'll find people who love him, hate
him, and those who simply roll their eyes. People call him a whacko,
egotist, genius, saint, and communist. Precious few are ambivalent about
Richard Stallman. (1,200 words)
> </quote>
>
> http://http://www.linuxworld.com/site-stories/2002/0508.rms.html
>
> Alan
> ________________________________________________
> See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't
post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
>
> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>


--__--__--

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 11:46:18 -0700
From: "Kevin Brown" <>
To:
Subject: Re: a hopefully simple question
Reply-To:

Does woody come with XFree86 4.0+ ?

robert jorgenson wrote:
>
> Okay it all installed fine, it didn't reckognize my windows partition and
> set lilo up for it, but i figured it out. Now i am having problems getting
> XFree86 to work. I am using the radeon 7000 card, and after looking
through
> the hardware howto on linuxdoc.org it said that radeon agp cards use the
> radeon driver for x 4.x and not supported in 3.x. I am running debian
> woody, i ran "apt-get install x-windows-core-system"(not sure if thats the
> exact package name i forgot) and after that was done i ran "X -configure"
> and tested the file it threw at me. It said something about there not
being
> a pointer registered. I would have kept going but i am sooooooo tired :)
If
> anyone has any tips/advice/whatever that might help i am gonna give this
> another shot tommorow night.
>
> At 10:41 PM 5/8/02 -0700, you wrote:
> >On Wed, 2002-05-08 at 22:05, robert jorgenson wrote:
> > > Okay i have a windows box with an 18GB hard drive, it has a 5gb
windows
> > > partition and i wanted to install debian on the rest. Ive never
installed
> > > linux on a box that had windows on it, or any other operating system
for
> > > that matter. Is there anything i should know before doing this besides
> > > backup? Like a special lilo configuration(or whatever debian uses) or
> > > anythign like that? I have wanted to install debian for a long time
but
> > > havent had the chance, now i got the space and the cd's and just need
some
> > > advice :)
> > >
> >----
> >My experience is with redhat / little mandrake & suse
> >
> >install away - leave the winders partition alone - as long as this 18G
> >hd is master device on primary controller, debian shouldn't bother it (I
> >believe that is would use grub in favor of lilo and it should offer dual
> >boot.
> >
> >Craig
> >________________________________________________
> >See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't
> >post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
> >
> >PLUG-discuss mailing list -
> >http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
> ________________________________________________
> See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't
post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
>
> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss

--__--__--

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 11:53:55 -0700
From: "robert jorgenson" <>
To:
Subject: Re: a hopefully simple question
Reply-To:

I couldn't find out for sure, but i assume so since the man page referred
to X 4.1.0.1

At 11:46 AM 5/9/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Does woody come with XFree86 4.0+ ?
>
>robert jorgenson wrote:
> >
> > Okay it all installed fine, it didn't reckognize my windows partition
and
> > set lilo up for it, but i figured it out. Now i am having problems
getting
> > XFree86 to work. I am using the radeon 7000 card, and after looking
through
> > the hardware howto on linuxdoc.org it said that radeon agp cards use the
> > radeon driver for x 4.x and not supported in 3.x. I am running debian
> > woody, i ran "apt-get install x-windows-core-system"(not sure if thats
the
> > exact package name i forgot) and after that was done i ran
"X -configure"
> > and tested the file it threw at me. It said something about there not
being
> > a pointer registered. I would have kept going but i am sooooooo tired :)
If
> > anyone has any tips/advice/whatever that might help i am gonna give this
> > another shot tommorow night.
> >
> > At 10:41 PM 5/8/02 -0700, you wrote:
> > >On Wed, 2002-05-08 at 22:05, robert jorgenson wrote:
> > > > Okay i have a windows box with an 18GB hard drive, it has a 5gb
windows
> > > > partition and i wanted to install debian on the rest. Ive never
> installed
> > > > linux on a box that had windows on it, or any other operating
> system for
> > > > that matter. Is there anything i should know before doing this
besides
> > > > backup? Like a special lilo configuration(or whatever debian uses)
or
> > > > anythign like that? I have wanted to install debian for a long time
but
> > > > havent had the chance, now i got the space and the cd's and just
> need some
> > > > advice :)
> > > >
> > >----
> > >My experience is with redhat / little mandrake & suse
> > >
> > >install away - leave the winders partition alone - as long as this 18G
> > >hd is master device on primary controller, debian shouldn't bother it
(I
> > >believe that is would use grub in favor of lilo and it should offer
dual
> > >boot.
> > >
> > >Craig
> > >________________________________________________
> > >See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't
> > >post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
> > >
> > >PLUG-discuss mailing list -
> > >http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >
> > ________________________________________________
> > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't
> post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
> >
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list -
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>________________________________________________
>See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't
>post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
>
>PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss


--__--__--

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 12:53:08 -0700
From: Victor Odhner <>
To:
Subject: Re: The Stallman Factor
Reply-To:

Thanks, Alan.

>From http://www.linuxworld.com/site-stories/2002/0508.rms.html --
> I spoke to Strunk last week. He knows no matter what he
> does, some will be unhappy. If he changes the name of
> the group to SIG-GNU/LINUX, people will complain. If he
> misses the opportunity to have Stallman speak to the
> group because he doesn't change the name, others will be
> unhappy. The FSF put Strunk between a rock and a hard place.

I hold to the point I made before. There really should be
a GNU Users' Group, and THIS group should remain PLUG.
GNUUG would be a low-activity group, but would establish an
identity and be prepared for Stallman visits, for the 20th
anniversary, for the arrival of Hurd, etc. It would maintain
a mailing list and a simple web site, including resource
links for products that preserve the freedoms to run, study,
redistribute and improve. It would be independent of the
Free Software Foundation, but would maintain strong links
in that direction.

We have some excellent Free Software resources locally
(Derek, for example), who would be excellent spokespersons
for The Cause. There is nothing artificial about this, and
it would be a good complement to some other groups in the Valley.
And the Free Software movement needs coherent, professional,
diplomatic advocates who can help to mature the public
image of this line of thought.

I keep thinking about how silly I originally thought Stallman's
"moneybags" cartoon was, and how true-to-life it seems now.
It could actually play against some stories making it into
the newspapers nowadays. ;-)

You can be an advocate for Free Software without becoming a
hermit, but there is an advantage for presenting the message
in a focused manner: "Linux" draws in examples like Caldera
and muddies the water, so I think it would be great to have
a specialized mechanism for plugging (oops, wrong word) the
GNU message. I'd help out with any such effort if anyone
wanted to be the spokesman.

Vic


--


Let me be a part of the solution:
http://www.newearth.org/~victor/resume.html
-- or --
http://members.cox.net/vodhner/

Helping Grow the Techoasis - http://www.techoasis.org

--__--__--

Message: 6
From: technomage <>
To:
Subject: Re: [PLUG-announce]Sequoia Meeting Tonight
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 13:12:55 -0700
Reply-To:

yeah!

Big mike (Mike Duckett) will be bringing the movie. have lots of popcorn
ready!

Technomage

On Thursday 09 May 2002 09:02 am, you wrote:
> Time: 7:00 p.m.
>
> Topic: Revolution OS (the movie)
>
> See ya there!

--
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or
numbered!
My life is my own - No. 6

--__--__--

Message: 7
From: Kurt Granroth <>
To: PLUG <>
Subject: Good place for CHEAP (yet warrantied) computers?
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:11:30 -0700
Reply-To:

I know of quite a few places that sell high quality and infinitely
customized computers.. but at a price. Right now, I'm buying a computer
for a friend and I am having a very tough time finding just the right one.

Here's the problem: It has to be VERY cheap. I'll go as high as $300 but
even that is pushing it a bit. Obviously, this can't be a kick-ass
computer, but it doesn't need to be. A celeron/duron with 64M + few gig
drive and modem is all that's needed (no keyboard, mouse, speakers, or
monitor). It will be running Windows (unfortunately!) so hardware
compatibility is a moot point.

Now there are quite a few systems on eBay that fit that criteria.. but the
list drops to zero after the next requirement: there must be some sort of
warranty (tech support, mostly) on it. My friend lives in MI so having me
support the system is out of the question.

Anybody run into a similar situation and find such a retailer?
--
Kurt Granroth - "KDE -- Conquer Your Desktop"
KDE Developer/Evangelist |
http://www.granroth.org |


--__--__--

Message: 8
From: Jim <>
To:
Subject: Sequoia
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:26:12 -0700
Reply-To:

I do hope someone has a copy of Mandrake 8.2 that they want to offer to me
tonight.
- --
Jim

Freedom is worth protecting


--__--__--

Message: 9
From: Jim <>
To:
Subject: Re: Good place for CHEAP (yet warrantied) computers?
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:46:25 -0700
Reply-To:

If you are near north Tempe, try Elite PC (www.elitepc.com).


On Thursday 09 May 2002 14:11, you wrote:
> I know of quite a few places that sell high quality and infinitely
> customized computers.. but at a price. Right now, I'm buying a computer
> for a friend and I am having a very tough time finding just the right one.
>
> Here's the problem: It has to be VERY cheap. I'll go as high as $300 but
> even that is pushing it a bit. Obviously, this can't be a kick-ass
> computer, but it doesn't need to be. A celeron/duron with 64M + few gig
> drive and modem is all that's needed (no keyboard, mouse, speakers, or
> monitor). It will be running Windows (unfortunately!) so hardware
> compatibility is a moot point.
>
> Now there are quite a few systems on eBay that fit that criteria.. but the
> list drops to zero after the next requirement: there must be some sort of
> warranty (tech support, mostly) on it. My friend lives in MI so having me
> support the system is out of the question.
>
> Anybody run into a similar situation and find such a retailer?

- --
Jim

Freedom is worth protecting


--__--__--

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:11:26 -0700
From: "robert jorgenson" <>
To:
Subject: Re: Good place for CHEAP (yet warrantied) computers?
Reply-To:

WOW, i wish i knew about this place yesterday, they have the radeon 7000
agp 32 MB ddr with tv out and multiple monitor support for 65 bucks, and i
spent 80 on mine :( oh well to late now

At 02:46 PM 5/9/02 -0700, you wrote:
You could try www.compgeeks.com. I bought a PII with 3GB for $125 from them
last year, and I've had no problems with it.


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