Although I don't personally use the site, I do. I care when sites decide
that everything on the page has to be Javascript and I can't navigate it
because Java isn't loaded by default on my machine due to security
concerns. I care when reports on ZDNet (never one of our strongest allies)
suggest that when loading XP you are asked 5 times to open a passport
account implying to their users that is the only way to get on the
internet. The idea here is if they get enough support (users) for
Passport, they can merely point to the installed numbers and tell web site
owners that they should *require* use of passport to connect to their
website.
The concept of writing web pages using standards (my god I never heard of
those) that are agreed upon by all does not seem to even occur to the
authors of this and many other sites on the net. When a site declares
across the top of the page 'This site best viewed with Internet Explorer'
I still expect some kind of viewable site. Instead, I normally find that
the webmaster has chosen to use Front Page or some sort of Java generator
and has only viewed their page in IE.
I care because the very operating system I use is under attack when web
pages declare this sort of garbage. The msn.com site does not return an IE
for Linux choice. I care when companies decide which operating systems,
programs, etc. will be allowed to view their site, especially when that
company has a vested interest in me using their software. It would be
similar to me writing a browser then making the home page for the browser
require use of it before the page would load. Konqueror users have a
choice about what user agent string can be sent to the site in response to
a query. Now I would be discriminating against the majority, which, I
believe is legal. It is when I begin, as MS has done, to discriminate
against the minority that my actions become illegal- at least anywhere but
the net.
When I write web pages, I must take pains to make it accessible to all.
What is the use of the web if you cannot reach a wide audience? However MS
is using their wide user base to insist that only that user base have
access to publicly available pages. That is discrimination. Maybe someone
will see it and begin to do something about it.
My $.02
Patrick
On Thu, 25 Oct 2001, jeffrey l koehn wrote:
> Who cares?
>
> ---------------------cyclox
>
> On Thursday 25 October 2001 13:06, you wrote:
> > Check out this error:
> >
> >
> > Browser Not Supported
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately, Microsoft® .NET Passport does not support
> > the Web browsing software you are using. Please use supported
> > browsing software such as Microsoft Internet Explorer version 4.0
> > or later, or Netscape Navigator versions 4.08-4.82.
> >
> > If you use Netscape Navigator 6.1: due to possible data
> > security issues, you cannot currently access .NET Passport using
> > Netscape Navigator 6.1. We take security seriously and are
> > working with Netscape to resolve these issues as soon as possible
> > so that .NET Passport can support Netscape Navigator 6.1. Until
> > that time, please use supported browsing software. We apologize
> > for this inconvenience and thank you for your patience.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Member Services Terms of Use Privacy Statement
> >
> > Some elements © 1999 - 2001 Microsoft® Corporation. All
> > rights reserved.
>
> ----------------------------------------
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> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> Content-Description:
> ----------------------------------------
>
> ----------------------------------------
> Content-Type: image/gif; charset="iso-8859-1";
> name="dotnetlogoBIG.gif"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> Content-Description:
> ----------------------------------------
> ________________________________________________
> See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
>
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>
%20%0A>%20suggest%20that%20when%20loading%20XP%20you%20are%20asked%205%20times%20to%20open%20a%20passport%20%0A>%20account%20implying%20to%20their%20users%20that%20is%20the%20only%20way%20to%20get%20on%20the%20%0A>%20internet.%20The%20idea%20here%20is%20if%20they%20get%20enough%20support%20(users)%20for%20%0A>%20Passport,%20they%20can%20merely%20point%20to%20the%20installed%20numbers%20and%20tell%20web%20site%20%0A>%20owners%20that%20they%20should%20*require*%20use%20of%20passport%20to%20connect%20to%20their%20%0A>%20website.%0A>%20The%20concept%20of%20writing%20web%20pages%20using%20standards%20(my%20god%20I%20never%20heard%20of%20%0A>%20those)%20that%20are%20agreed%20upon%20by%20all%20does%20not%20seem%20to%20even%20occur%20to%20the%20%0A>%20authors%20of%20this%20and%20many%20other%20sites%20on%20the%20net.%20When%20a%20site%20declares%20%0A>%20across%20the%20top%20of%20the%20page%20'This%20site%20best%20viewed%20with%20Internet%20Explorer'%20%0A>%20I%20still%20expect%20some%20kind%20of%20viewable%20site.%20Instead,%20I%20normally%20find%20that%20%0A>%20the%20webmaster%20has%20chosen%20to%20use%20Front%20Page%20or%20some%20sort%20of%20Java%20generator%20%0A>%20and%20has%20only%20viewed%20their%20page%20in%20IE.%0A>%20I%20care%20because%20the%20very%20operating%20system%20I%20use%20is%20under%20attack%20when%20web%20%0A>%20pages%20declare%20this%20sort%20of%20garbage.%20The%20msn.com%20site%20does%20not%20return%20an%20IE%20%0A>%20for%20Linux%20choice.%20I%20care%20when%20companies%20decide%20which%20operating%20systems,%20%0A>%20programs,%20etc.%20will%20be%20allowed%20to%20view%20their%20site,%20especially%20when%20that%20%0A>%20company%20has%20a%20vested%20interest%20in%20me%20using%20their%20software.%20It%20would%20be%20%0A>%20similar%20to%20me%20writing%20a%20browser%20then%20making%20the%20home%20page%20for%20the%20browser%20%0A>%20require%20use%20of%20it%20before%20the%20page%20would%20load.%20Konqueror%20users%20have%20a%20%0A>%20choice%20about%20what%20user%20agent%20string%20can%20be%20sent%20to%20the%20site%20in%20response%20to%20%0A>%20a%20query.%20Now%20I%20would%20be%20discriminating%20against%20the%20majority,%20which,%20I%20%0A>%20believe%20is%20legal.%20It%20is%20when%20I%20begin,%20as%20MS%20has%20done,%20to%20discriminate%20%0A>%20against%20the%20minority%20that%20my%20actions%20become%20illegal-%20at%20least%20anywhere%20but%20%0A>%20the%20net.%0A>%20When%20I%20write%20web%20pages,%20I%20must%20take%20pains%20to%20make%20it%20accessible%20to%20all.%20%0A>%20What%20is%20the%20use%20of%20the%20web%20if%20you%20cannot%20reach%20a%20wide%20audience?%20However%20MS%20%0A>%20is%20using%20their%20wide%20user%20base%20to%20insist%20that%20only%20that%20user%20base%20have%20%0A>%20access%20to%20publicly%20available%20pages.%20That%20is%20discrimination.%20Maybe%20someone%20%0A>%20will%20see%20it%20and%20begin%20to%20do%20something%20about%20it.%0A>%20My%20%24.02%0A>%20%0A>%20Patrick%0A>%20%0A>%20%0A>%20On%20Thu,%2025%20Oct%202001,%20jeffrey%20l%20koehn%20wrote:%0A>%20%0A>%20>%20%20Who%20cares?%0A>%20>%20%0A>%20>%20---------------------cyclox%0A>%20>%20%0A>%20>%20On%20Thursday%2025%20October%202001%2013:06,%20you%20wrote:%0A>%20>%20>%20Check%20out%20this%20error:%0A>%20>%20>%0A>%20>%20>%0A>%20>%20>%0A>%20>%20>%0A>%20>%20>%0A>%20>%20>%0A>%20>%20>%0A>%20>%20>%0A>%20>%20>%0A>%20>%20>%0A>%20>%20>%0A>%20>%20%0A>%20>%20----------------------------------------%0A>%20>%20Content-Type:%20image/gif;%20charset=%22iso-8859-1%22;%20name=%22T.gif%22%0A>%20>%20Content-Transfer-Encoding:%20base64%0A>%20>%20Content-Description:%20%0A>%20>%20----------------------------------------%0A>%20>%20%0A>%20>%20----------------------------------------%0A>%20>%20Content-Type:%20image/gif;%20charset=%22iso-8859-1%22;%20%0A>%20>%20name=%22dotnetlogoBIG.gif%22%0A>%20>%20Content-Transfer-Encoding:%20base64%0A>%20>%20Content-Description:%20%0A>%20>%20----------------------------------------%0A>%20>%20________________________________________________%0A>%20>%20See%20http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml%20if%20your%20mail%20doesn't%20post%20to%20the%20list%20quickly%20and%20you%20use%20Netscape%20to%20write%20mail.%0A>%20>%20%0A>%20>%20PLUG-discuss%20mailing%20list%20%20-%20%20PLUG-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us%0A>%20>%20http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss%0A>%20>%20%0A>%20%0A>%20%0A>%20 "Reply to this message")
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