New business startup help/suggestions/info needed

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Author: Justinjustin@securityhole.net
Date:  
Subject: New business startup help/suggestions/info needed
right in the middle of the mall between Robinsons and the food court, it is
through a service called WOW.

-Justin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lucas Vogel" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 10:06 AM
Subject: RE: New business startup help/suggestions/info needed


> there is?? where?
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Justin [mailto:justin@securityhole.net]
> > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 9:37 AM
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: New business startup help/suggestions/info needed
> >
> >
> > Also, there is free Internet access in Paradise Valley Mall
> > already, the
> > others cant be far behind.
> >
> > -Justin
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lucas Vogel" <>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 9:37 AM
> > Subject: RE: New business startup help/suggestions/info needed
> >
> >
> > > The airport is already covered; they have Laptop Lane. But
> > the mall(s)
> > might
> > > be a good idea...
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Tilby, Lynn # PHX [mailto:LTilby@simatics.com]
> > > > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 9:12 AM
> > > > To:
> > > > Subject: New business startup help/suggestions/info needed
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Cyber-Cafe suggestions:
> > > >
> > > > Try Malls & the airport... I recently tried to use a terminal
> > > > connection
> > > > place at SLC airport and found out they had only been open a
> > > > couple of weeks
> > > > and were overbooked! A cyber-cafe at each terminal building
> > > > in the Airport
> > > > I think would do VERY well!
> > > >
> > > > Put together a spread sheet. Cross your t's and dot your
> > > > i's! If you are
> > > > disabled you should have NO! problem finding funding all over
> > > > the place!!!!
> > > > The ONLY problem is filling out all the paper work! This
> > is doable!!
> > > >
> > > > Lynn P. Tilby
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From:
> > > > > [SMTP:]
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 8:58 AM
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Subject: Plug-discuss digest, Vol 1 #436 - 18 msgs
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Send Plug-discuss mailing list submissions to
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit
> > > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > > >
> > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
> > > > specific than
> > > > > "Re: Contents of Plug-discuss digest..."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Today's Topics:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Re: Linux Today (Jim)
> > > > > 2. python: string.replace(..) won't work (Lucas Vogel)
> > > > > 3. Re: diffing special chars ()
> > > > > 4. Re: diffing special chars ()
> > > > > 5. RE: python: string.replace(..) won't work (Lucas Vogel)
> > > > > 6. DeCSS Time-Warner Hypocrisy (Mike Cantrell)
> > > > > 7. Re: DeCSS Time-Warner Hypocrisy (Jim)
> > > > > 8. Re: python: string.replace(..) won't work (der.hans)
> > > > > 9. Re: diffing special chars (der.hans)
> > > > > 10. Re: diffing special chars (der.hans)
> > > > > 11. JLF = Kibo ? (Dennis Sacks)
> > > > > 12. Re: JLF = Kibo ? (Alan Dayley)
> > > > > 13. RE: JLF = Kibo ? (Michael Sheldon)
> > > > > 14. RE: diffing special chars (Lucas Vogel)
> > > > > 15. The Linux Drivers Petition (Lucas Vogel)
> > > > > 16. New business startup help/suggestions/info needed (Hawke)
> > > > > 17. Re: JLF = Kibo ? (J.L.Francois)
> > > > > 18. Re: New business startup help/suggestions/info needed
> > > > (Dennis Sacks)
> > > > >
> > > > > --__--__--
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 1
> > > > > From: Jim <>
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Subject: Re: Linux Today
> > > > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:24:53 -0700
> > > > > Reply-To:
> > > > >
> > > > > Never mind - it seems to be back up and running
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, 25 Aug 2000, you wrote:
> > > > > > Anyone else having trouble getting to the
> > linuxtoday.com website?
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jim
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Always practice safe HEX
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________________________
> > > > > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if
> > > > your mail doesn't
> > > > > post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Plug-discuss mailing list -
> > > >
> > > > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim
> > > > >
> > > > > Always practice safe HEX
> > > > >
> > > > > --__--__--
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 2
> > > > > From: Lucas Vogel <>
> > > > > To: plug1 <>
> > > > > Subject: python: string.replace(..) won't work
> > > > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:54:18 -0700
> > > > > charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > > > Reply-To:
> > > > >
> > > > > Could someone take a look at this and tell me what's wrong at
> > > > > string.replace()?
> > > > >
> > > > > #Begin code---------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > import string, os, sys, re
> > > > >
> > > > > fName = sys.argv[1]
> > > > > s1 = sys.argv[2]
> > > > > s2 = sys.argv[3]
> > > > >
> > > > > f=open(fName,'rw')
> > > > >
> > > > > s=f.read()
> > > > >
> > > > > print "string.replace(" + `s` + ", " + `s1` + ", " + `s2` + ")"
> > > > > string.replace(s,s1,s2)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > print "s is now: " + `s` + "\n"
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > #end code-----------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > > > Lucas Vogel, Software Developer
> > > > > LandWarrior Project
> > > > > Exponent Inc.
> > > > >
> > > > > phone: (623)587-6739
> > > > > fax: (623)587-4187
> > > > > ------------www.exponent.com---------------
> > > > >
> > > > > --__--__--
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 3
> > > > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:18:04 -0700
> > > > > From:
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Subject: Re: diffing special chars
> > > > > Reply-To:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Seems odd that GNU "diff -r" won't recursively diff
> > > > > the dirs (akin to "dircmp") without choking on filenames
> > > > > that have evil characters. The GNU stuff is usually
> > > > > pretty good.
> > > > >
> > > > > Instead of "tr", could you tell GNU find not to do its
> > > > > shell metacharacter autoescaping thing, and pipe find's
> > > > > output through "strings -a" to strip out the evil
> > > > > characters?
> > > > >
> > > > > Admittedly, the perl solutions are MUCH better, but
> > > > > this technique might "get you by."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > D
> > > > >
> > > > > * On Thu, Aug 24, 2000 at 05:58:08PM -0700, der.hans wrote:
> > > > > > Am 24. Aug, 2000 schwäzte shadoiOsoulmachine.com so:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Maybe piping the output from ls -b or find to tr with
> > > > some options
> > > > > > > would do the trick.. Maybe using grep to pull out only
> > > > the ones you
> > > > > > > want to fix for speed..
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With tr I have to take into account all the special chars
> > > > :(. It won't
> > > > > > change "\ " into " ", since it only works on single
> > chars. Rod's
> > > > > > suggestion of sed looks like it should work, if I can get
> > > > sed to behave
> > > > > > the way it seems it should or failing that find out how
> > > > sed actually
> > > > > > behaves :). That would actually fix something else
> > for me as well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For now I'm using perl on the file after it was created.
> > > > Already had to
> > > > > do
> > > > > > that for something else, so it's not a great sin, just
> > > > something else to
> > > > > > try to move back to shell later on :).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ciao,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > der.hans
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > H der.hansOLuftHans.com home.pages.de/~lufthans/
> > > > www.Opnix.com
> > > > > > H Help Jerry Lewis stamp out M$...oops that's MDA - der.hans
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________________________
> > > > > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if
> > > > your mail doesn't
> > > > > post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Plug-discuss mailing list -
> > > > Plug-discussOlists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> > > > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> > > > >
> > > > > --__--__--
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 4
> > > > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:28:55 -0700
> > > > > From:
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Subject: Re: diffing special chars
> > > > > Reply-To:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Regex Law One:
> > > > >
> > > > >      One can easily create a regex.

> > > > >
> > > > > Regex Law Two:
> > > > >
> > > > >      In the time required to decipher a regex,
> > > > >      even a regex written by yourself, one could
> > > > >      have created a new regex from scratch in
> > > > >      one-tenth the time, because of Law One.

> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > D
> > > > >
> > > > > * On Thu, Aug 24, 2000 at 08:24:21PM -0700, J.L.Francois wrote:
> > > > > > I just took a look thru my copy of
> > > > > > Mastering Regular Expressions ( O'Reilly ) a.k.a The Owl Book.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It looks like this can be done in bash but I am not
> > > > willing to spend
> > > > > > the time creating something that no one will ever be able to
> > > > > > read or modify. It looks a lot easier in Perl.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Trust me, anyone that has done RegExp scripting knows
> > what I mean
> > > > > > when I say a regexp takes one week to being incomprehensible.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Get the book and give it a shot. It should be worth it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > JLF Sends...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It seems like on Thu, Aug 24, 2000 at 05:58:08PM
> > -0700, der.hans
> > > > > scribbled:
> > > > > > Orig Msg> Am 24. Aug, 2000 schwäzte so:
> > > > > > Orig Msg>
> > > > > > Orig Msg> > Maybe piping the output from ls -b or find to
> > > > tr with some
> > > > > options
> > > > > > Orig Msg> > would do the trick.. Maybe using grep to pull
> > > > out only the
> > > > > ones you
> > > > > > Orig Msg> > want to fix for speed..
> > > > > > Orig Msg>
> > > > > > Orig Msg> With tr I have to take into account all the
> > > > special chars :(.
> > > > > It won't
> > > > > > Orig Msg> change "\ " into " ", since it only works on
> > > > single chars.
> > > > > Rod's
> > > > > > Orig Msg> suggestion of sed looks like it should work, if
> > > > I can get sed
> > > > > to behave
> > > > > > Orig Msg> the way it seems it should or failing that find
> > > > out how sed
> > > > > actually
> > > > > > Orig Msg> behaves :). That would actually fix something
> > > > else for me as
> > > > > well.
> > > > > > Orig Msg>
> > > > > > Orig Msg> For now I'm using perl on the file after it
> > was created.
> > > > > Already had to do
> > > > > > Orig Msg> that for something else, so it's not a
> > great sin, just
> > > > > something else to
> > > > > > Orig Msg> try to move back to shell later on :).
> > > > > > Orig Msg>
> > > > > > Orig Msg> ciao,
> > > > > > Orig Msg>
> > > > > > Orig Msg> der.hans
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________________________
> > > > > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if
> > > > your mail doesn't
> > > > > post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Plug-discuss mailing list -
> > > >
> > > > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> > > > >
> > > > > --__--__--
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 5
> > > > > From: Lucas Vogel <>
> > > > > To: plug1 <>
> > > > > Subject: RE: python: string.replace(..) won't work
> > > > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:30:55 -0700
> > > > > charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > > > Reply-To:
> > > > >
> > > > > Holy cow! Talk about dumb mistakes. I need to catch the
> > output from
> > > > > string.replace into another variable. Sorry for the
> > > > traffic, everyone.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Lucas Vogel
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 12:54 PM
> > > > > > To: plug1
> > > > > > Subject: python: string.replace(..) won't work
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Could someone take a look at this and tell me what's wrong at
> > > > > > string.replace()?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > #Begin code---------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > import string, os, sys, re
> > > > > >
> > > > > > fName = sys.argv[1]
> > > > > > s1 = sys.argv[2]
> > > > > > s2 = sys.argv[3]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > f=open(fName,'rw')
> > > > > >
> > > > > > s=f.read()
> > > > > >
> > > > > > print "string.replace(" + `s` + ", " + `s1` + ", " +
> > `s2` + ")"
> > > > > > string.replace(s,s1,s2)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > print "s is now: " + `s` + "\n"
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > #end code-----------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > > > > Lucas Vogel, Software Developer
> > > > > > LandWarrior Project
> > > > > > Exponent Inc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > phone: (623)587-6739
> > > > > > fax: (623)587-4187
> > > > > > ------------www.exponent.com---------------
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --__--__--
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 6
> > > > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 15:35:05 -0700 (MST)
> > > > > From: Mike Cantrell <>
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Subject: DeCSS Time-Warner Hypocrisy
> > > > > Reply-To:
> > > > >
> > > > > This was just posted on slashdot.. I love the irony...
> > > > apparently CNN
> > > > > (owned by Time-Warner) linked to a list of DeCSS mirrors:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backIssues/2000/08/25#anothe
> > > > rProblemForT
> > > > > imewarner
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Mike Cantrell
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --__--__--
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 7
> > > > > From: Jim <>
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Subject: Re: DeCSS Time-Warner Hypocrisy
> > > > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 15:51:24 -0700
> > > > > Reply-To:
> > > > >
> > > > > The link is now gone, but it does point to the total
> > > > hipocracy of the
> > > > > $-brubbers. Another interesting point to consider is the
> > > > amicus briefs
> > > > > filed supporting (?) Napster's position right below the
> > CNN story.
> > > > >
> > > > > (both are posted on slashdot)
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, 25 Aug 2000, you wrote:
> > > > > > This was just posted on slashdot.. I love the irony...
> > > > apparently CNN
> > > > > > (owned by Time-Warner) linked to a list of DeCSS mirrors:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backIssues/2000/08/25#anothe
> > > > rProblemForT
> > > > > imewarner
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Mike Cantrell
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________________________
> > > > > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if
> > > > your mail doesn't
> > > > > post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Plug-discuss mailing list -
> > > >
> > > > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim
> > > > >
> > > > > Always practice safe HEX
> > > > >
> > > > > --__--__--
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 8
> > > > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:11:19 -0700 (MST)
> > > > > From: "der.hans" <>
> > > > > To: plug1 <>
> > > > > Subject: Re: python: string.replace(..) won't work
> > > > > Reply-To:
> > > > >
> > > > > Am 25. Aug, 2000 schwäzte Lucas Vogel so:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Could someone take a look at this and tell me what's wrong at
> > > > > > string.replace()?
> > > > >
> > > > > Lucas,
> > > > >
> > > > > you should drop these questions on the devel list :). Can't
> > > > help you with
> > > > > python, though :(. Maybe we should see if Jiva is Kiboizing
> > > > as well as JLF
> > > > > :).
> > > > >
> > > > > I'll leave the junk at the bottom for once, just in
> > case he is...
> > > > >
> > > > > ciao,
> > > > >
> > > > > der.hans
> > > > >
> > > > > > #Begin code---------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > import string, os, sys, re
> > > > > >
> > > > > > fName = sys.argv[1]
> > > > > > s1 = sys.argv[2]
> > > > > > s2 = sys.argv[3]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > f=open(fName,'rw')
> > > > > >
> > > > > > s=f.read()
> > > > > >
> > > > > > print "string.replace(" + `s` + ", " + `s1` + ", " +
> > `s2` + ")"
> > > > > > string.replace(s,s1,s2)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > print "s is now: " + `s` + "\n"
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > #end code-----------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > > > > Lucas Vogel, Software Developer
> > > > > > LandWarrior Project
> > > > > > Exponent Inc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > phone: (623)587-6739
> > > > > > fax: (623)587-4187
> > > > > > ------------www.exponent.com---------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________________________
> > > > > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if
> > > > your mail doesn't
> > > > > post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Plug-discuss mailing list -
> > > >
> > > > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > # home.pages.de/~lufthans/
> > www.Opnix.com
> > > > > # Knowledge is useless unless it's shared. - der.hans
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --__--__--
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 9
> > > > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:16:26 -0700 (MST)
> > > > > From: "der.hans" <>
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Subject: Re: diffing special chars
> > > > > Reply-To:
> > > > >
> > > > > Am 25. Aug, 2000 schwäzte so:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > \_ For now I'm using perl on the file after it was
> > > > created. Already had
> > > > > to do
> > > > > > \_ that for something else, so it's not a great sin, just
> > > > something else
> > > > > to
> > > > > > \_ try to move back to shell later on :).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You make it sound so hard:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > lartmebofh% perl foo.pl
> > > > > > <...>
> > > > > > lartmebofh% cat > foo.sh
> > > > > > #!/bin/sh
> > > > > >
> > > > > > perl foo.pl
> > > > > > ^D
> > > > > > lartmebofh% chmod +x foo.sh
> > > > > > lartmebofh% foo.sh
> > > > > > <...>
> > > > > > lartmebofh%
> > > > > >
> > > > > > simple as pie.
> > > > >
> > > > > Not for the newbie trying to understand what's going on,
> > > > which is the
> > > > > point of the exercise :).
> > > > >
> > > > > ciao,
> > > > >
> > > > > der.hans
> > > > > --
> > > > > # home.pages.de/~lufthans/
> > www.Opnix.com
> > > > > # Knowledge is useless unless it's shared. - der.hans
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --__--__--
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 10
> > > > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:30:31 -0700 (MST)
> > > > > From: "der.hans" <>
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Subject: Re: diffing special chars
> > > > > Reply-To:
> > > > >
> > > > > Am 25. Aug, 2000 schwäzte Kevin Buettner so:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I used to do a lot of shell programming. I don't
> > > > anymore. If I find
> > > > > > myself writing a shell script that ends up being longer
> > > > than six lines
> > > > > > (or so), I switch to Perl.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm moving that direction. I'll admit, however, that I
> > make a lot of
> > > > > system calls in my nukeandpuke perl scripts :).
> > > > >
> > > > > > I'm puzzled by this statement. In the script I sent,
> > you ended up
> > > > > > with the names of all of the files in a single
> > (array) variable so
> > > > > > they could be sorted later on. The actual contents of
> > > > the files were
> > > > > > never actually read. Surely you don't mean that your
> > > > filename data is
> > > > > > 60+MB, do you?
> > > > >
> > > > > Yup. I'm not talking about the contents of the files, but I
> > > > like David's
> > > > > compression mechanism. I'll have to ask him more about it
> > > > ;-). I'm doing a
> > > > > listing of everything on the system, which then goes for
> > > > backups. Most
> > > > > people (and myself most of the time) won't have this much,
> > > > but right now I
> > > > > do :). Ever seen a shell using 150MB of memory? :) It's a
> > > > great way to
> > > > > kill init...
> > > > >
> > > > > The only reason I mentioned it was file listings instead of
> > > > just being
> > > > > random, but in the same order, strings is that I'm
> > > > interested in getting
> > > > > find and tar to list the files the same way.
> > > > >
> > > > > Oh, and yes, I know this ain't the best way to do this
> > > > computer-wise, but
> > > > > I'm trying to get something simple that beginners can sink
> > > > they're teeth
> > > > > into.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Regardless, you really do need to do the sort, because
> > > > you can't rely
> > > > > > on find (or Perl's File::Find) to list the files in
> > any particular
> > > > > > order. If you want to diff two lists of files to see
> > what's been
> > > > >
> > > > > Actually, I do fine. Things get written in the original
> > > > order, then read
> > > > > back in the order they were written, so I'm fine.
> > > > >
> > > > > > added or deleted, you'll need to do some ordering on the
> > > > list. You
> > > > >
> > > > > The goal is for the lists to be the same. Once I have the
> > > > failover working
> > > > > I'll see if a checksum works right when they do match, but
> > > > the failover
> > > > > has to work and I have to get everything written in the
> > same format.
> > > > >
> > > > > > don't need to sort in perl though. You could just use
> > > > the sort program,
> > > > > > but AFAIK, the data will still end up in memory.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yup.
> > > > >
> > > > > BTW, this went to discuss instead of devel because I
> > > > thought it more of a
> > > > > "how to config tar and find to work the same" rather
> > than a devel
> > > > > question. Guess I was wrong :).
> > > > >
> > > > > ciao,
> > > > >
> > > > > der.hans
> > > > > --
> > > > > # home.pages.de/~lufthans/
> > www.Opnix.com
> > > > > # The only way for a woman to change a man
> > > > > # is if he's wearing Depends[TM] - der.hans
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --__--__--
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 11
> > > > > From: "Dennis Sacks" <>
> > > > > To: <>
> > > > > Subject: JLF = Kibo ?
> > > > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:28:21 -0700
> > > > > charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > > > Reply-To:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hehe...gotta be careful where you say you're kiboizing. :-)
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sadly, how many people on the Internet these days even know
> > > > who Kibo is?
> > > > >
> > > > > Dennis Sacks
> > > > >
> > > > > Managed Services Geek, OpNIX, Inc. www.opnix.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --__--__--
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 12
> > > > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:28:19 -0700
> > > > > To:
> > > > > From: Alan Dayley <>
> > > > > Subject: Re: JLF = Kibo ?
> > > > > <>
> > > > > <>
> > > > > <>
> > > > > <>
> > > > > Reply-To:
> > > > >
> > > > > I admit to being on the internet for at least 7 years
> > and still not
> > > > > knowing
> > > > > who Kibo is. Enlighten me please.
> > > > >
> > > > > Alan, Computer Knowledgeable Linux Newbie
> > > > >
> > > > > At 09:28 AM 8/25/00 -0700, you wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Hehe...gotta be careful where you say you're kiboizing. :-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Sadly, how many people on the Internet these days even
> > > > know who Kibo is?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Dennis Sacks
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Managed Services Geek, OpNIX, Inc. www.opnix.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >________________________________________________
> > > > > >See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your
> > > > mail doesn't
> > > > > >post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Plug-discuss mailing list -
> >
> > > > > >http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --__--__--
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 13
> > > > > From: "Michael Sheldon" <>
> > > > > To: <>
> > > > > Subject: RE: JLF = Kibo ?
> > > > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:11:09 -0700
> > > > > charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > > > Reply-To:
> > > > >
> > > > > Kibo was the god of grep.
> > > > >
> > > > > He had a routine that would search the newsgroups, *ALL* of the
> > > > > newsgroups,
> > > > > for any mention of his name, to which you would get a reply.
> > > > >
> > > > > I got my first shell account about 8-9 years ago, and he
> > > > was net.legend
> > > > > then.
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael J. Sheldon
> > > > > http://www.desertraven.com/
> > > > > Make a fast friend, adopt a greyhound!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From:
> > > > > [mailto:plug-discuss-admin@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us]On
> > > > Behalf Of Alan
> > > > > Dayley
> > > > > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 22:28
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Subject: Re: JLF = Kibo ?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I admit to being on the internet for at least 7 years
> > and still not
> > > > > knowing
> > > > > who Kibo is. Enlighten me please.
> > > > >
> > > > > Alan, Computer Knowledgeable Linux Newbie
> > > > >
> > > > > At 09:28 AM 8/25/00 -0700, you wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Hehe...gotta be careful where you say you're kiboizing. :-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Sadly, how many people on the Internet these days even
> > > > know who Kibo is?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Dennis Sacks
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Managed Services Geek, OpNIX, Inc. www.opnix.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >________________________________________________
> > > > > >See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your
> > > > mail doesn't
> > > > > >post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Plug-discuss mailing list -
> >
> > > > > >http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________________________
> > > > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your
> > > > mail doesn't
> > > > > post
> > > > > to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
> > > > >
> > > > > Plug-discuss mailing list -
> >
> > > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --__--__--
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 14
> > > > > From: Lucas Vogel <>
> > > > > To: "''"
> > > > > <>
> > > > > Subject: RE: diffing special chars
> > > > > Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 00:06:14 -0700
> > > > > charset="iso-8859-15"
> > > > > Reply-To:
> > > > >
> > > > > I bet there is a python function somewhere waiting for you
> > > > to stumble on
> > > > > it!
> > > > > :) I spend about a half a day today trying to figure out
> > > > how to use python
> > > > > for a really dinky little script, but I really came away
> > > > very impressed
> > > > > with
> > > > > the sheer power of the language. I am a fan, and I will
> > > > double my efforts
> > > > > to
> > > > > use it wherever possible in my Win32 environment at work,
> > > > and definitely
> > > > > at
> > > > > home in my 100% Linux environment.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: der.hans [mailto:PLUGd@lufthans.com]
> > > > > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 5:31 PM
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Subject: Re: diffing special chars
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Am 25. Aug, 2000 schwäzte Kevin Buettner so:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I used to do a lot of shell programming. I don't
> > > > anymore. If I find
> > > > > > myself writing a shell script that ends up being longer
> > > > than six lines
> > > > > > (or so), I switch to Perl.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm moving that direction. I'll admit, however, that I
> > make a lot of
> > > > > system calls in my nukeandpuke perl scripts :).
> > > > >
> > > > > > I'm puzzled by this statement. In the script I sent,
> > you ended up
> > > > > > with the names of all of the files in a single
> > (array) variable so
> > > > > > they could be sorted later on. The actual contents of
> > > > the files were
> > > > > > never actually read. Surely you don't mean that your
> > > > filename data is
> > > > > > 60+MB, do you?
> > > > >
> > > > > Yup. I'm not talking about the contents of the files, but I
> > > > like David's
> > > > > compression mechanism. I'll have to ask him more about it
> > > > ;-). I'm doing a
> > > > > listing of everything on the system, which then goes for
> > > > backups. Most
> > > > > people (and myself most of the time) won't have this much,
> > > > but right now I
> > > > > do :). Ever seen a shell using 150MB of memory? :) It's a
> > > > great way to
> > > > > kill init...
> > > > >
> > > > > The only reason I mentioned it was file listings instead of
> > > > just being
> > > > > random, but in the same order, strings is that I'm
> > > > interested in getting
> > > > > find and tar to list the files the same way.
> > > > >
> > > > > Oh, and yes, I know this ain't the best way to do this
> > > > computer-wise, but
> > > > > I'm trying to get something simple that beginners can sink
> > > > they're teeth
> > > > > into.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Regardless, you really do need to do the sort, because
> > > > you can't rely
> > > > > > on find (or Perl's File::Find) to list the files in
> > any particular
> > > > > > order. If you want to diff two lists of files to see
> > what's been
> > > > >
> > > > > Actually, I do fine. Things get written in the original
> > > > order, then read
> > > > > back in the order they were written, so I'm fine.
> > > > >
> > > > > > added or deleted, you'll need to do some ordering on the
> > > > list. You
> > > > >
> > > > > The goal is for the lists to be the same. Once I have the
> > > > failover working
> > > > > I'll see if a checksum works right when they do match, but
> > > > the failover
> > > > > has to work and I have to get everything written in the
> > same format.
> > > > >
> > > > > > don't need to sort in perl though. You could just use
> > > > the sort program,
> > > > > > but AFAIK, the data will still end up in memory.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yup.
> > > > >
> > > > > BTW, this went to discuss instead of devel because I
> > > > thought it more of a
> > > > > "how to config tar and find to work the same" rather
> > than a devel
> > > > > question. Guess I was wrong :).
> > > > >
> > > > > ciao,
> > > > >
> > > > > der.hans
> > > > > --
> > > > > # home.pages.de/~lufthans/
> > www.Opnix.com
> > > > > # The only way for a woman to change a man
> > > > > # is if he's wearing Depends[TM] - der.hans
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________________________
> > > > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your
> > > > mail doesn't
> > > > > post
> > > > > to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
> > > > >
> > > > > Plug-discuss mailing list -
> >
> > > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> > > > >
> > > > > --__--__--
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 15
> > > > > From: Lucas Vogel <>
> > > > > To: "PLUG (E-mail)" <>
> > > > > Subject: The Linux Drivers Petition
> > > > > Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 00:27:58 -0700
> > > > > charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > > > Reply-To:
> > > > >
> > > > > Has everyone signed this yet?
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.libralinux.com/petition.english.html
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > > > Lucas Vogel, Software Developer
> > > > > Exponent Failure Analysis Associates, Inc.
> > > > >
> > > > > (623)587-6739
> > > > >
> > > > > --__--__--
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 16
> > > > > Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 05:10:16 -0700
> > > > > From: Hawke <>
> > > > > To: plug-discuss <>
> > > > > Subject: New business startup help/suggestions/info needed
> > > > > Reply-To:
> > > > >
> > > > > Guys,
> > > > > I've been putting this thing off long enough.
> > > > >
> > > > > I now need some help.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd like to start a business that involves the use of computers
> > > > > in a small location that serves the public (A cybercafe').
> > > > >
> > > > > I would appreciate any additional input here 9especially from
> > > > > those who are either owners or major contributing partners
> > > > > in their respective organizations).
> > > > >
> > > > > I am also in need of funding sources (if you guys know of any
> > > > > where grants may be issued, etc, please let me know)
> > > > >
> > > > > I am looking at 2 alternatives so far as the hardware
> > is concerned:
> > > > > 1. 25 workstations (diskless)
> > > > >     specifications (workstations):
> > > > >         memory: 256 megabytes
> > > > >         video; 8 megabytes or more
> > > > >         embedded linux os for loading Xwindows (or windows
> > > > if need be)
> > > > >             on an ethernet backbone to a main server (100baseT).
> > > > >         Large monitors (17 inch or greater)
> > > > >         CPU: athelon 550 Mhz or higher
> > > > >         (on some machines I will include "special
> > access technology"
> > > > >             for the visually impaired)

> > > > >
> > > > > Alternative 2:
> > > > >     25 workstations (permanently mounted laptops)
> > > > >         built in HDD's (restricted access)
> > > > >         100BaseT ethernet with embedded linux OS
> > > > >         CPU: Athelon 550 Mhz or higher

> > > > >
> > > > > Server:
> > > > >     CPU:Athelon 700 Mhz or greater
> > > > >     Memory: 512 megabytes or greater
> > > > >     HDD: Multiple 30 gigbye drives/RAID/SCSI
> > > > >     Standard vid adaptor (this is also the admin station)
> > > > >     OS: linux/BSD/SCO Unix/SUN Solaris/winNT
> > > > >        (any of these, but prefer *nix)
> > > > >     2 Ethernet adaptors (100BaseT or fiber interface)

> > > > >
> > > > > other equipment: 50 way switch (100BaseT)
> > > > >                           Routing panel
> > > > >                           card reader

> > > > >
> > > > > It has been suggested to me that I issue cards of prepaid time
> > > > > (such as 30 minute, 60 minute, up to 1000 minutes) for
> > > > various prices.
> > > > > The cost is computed on a per-minute basis and the larger cards
> > > > > would reflect a discount).
> > > > >
> > > > > As always, location is important. since there are already 3 such
> > > > > places around ASU, I plan to look elsewhere (such as central
> > > > > Phoenix, downtown Phoenix, Downtown glendale and north glendale)
> > > > >
> > > > > I am looking at possible bidquotes for both alternatives
> > > > listed above
> > > > > from local providers 9such as technology partners, pc-club,
> > > > and others).
> > > > >
> > > > > I am also looking at who would offer the best backbone service
> > > > > (or should I go with more than one with an in-house peering
> > > > > arrangement?), such as Cox, AT&T, QWEST, Sprint, MCI.
> > > > >
> > > > > Let me know if I need to add anything to this.
> > > > > I am trying to get this idea going as quickly as possible.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --__--__--
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 17
> > > > > Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 07:40:19 -0700
> > > > > From: "J.L.Francois" <>
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Subject: Re: JLF = Kibo ?
> > > > > Reply-To:
> > > > > Organization: MagusNet, Inc. Design * Develop * Integrate
> > > > > Reply-To:
> > > > >
> > > > > It seems like on Fri, Aug 25, 2000 at 10:28:19PM -0700,
> > Alan Dayley
> > > > > scribbled:
> > > > > Orig Msg> I admit to being on the internet for at least 7
> > > > years and still
> > > > > not knowing
> > > > > Orig Msg> who Kibo is. Enlighten me please.
> > > > > Orig Msg>
> > > > > Orig Msg> Alan, Computer Knowledgeable Linux Newbie
> > > > >
> > > > > Back during the time of The Great Renaming I was still
> > > > using Fido Gateways
> > > > > and got
> > > > > an account on Delphi for text based Internet Access.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kibo - Net Legend
> > > > >        Before the Great Renaming of Usenet and the arrival
> > > > of the unwashed
> > > > > masses
> > > > >        to the Internet, Kibo would grep the news spool and
> > > > generate an
> > > > > autoresponse
> > > > >        to any post that mentioned him.
> > > > >        if you look at the options for (X)Emacs there is
> > a feature
> > > > >        to still Kiboize newsgroups even though it really isn't
> > > > >        feasible to do this anymore.

> > > > >
> > > > > For those of you into the history of the Internet take a
> > > > look at these:
> > > > > http://www.galactic-guide.com/articles/6U1.html
> > > > > http://www.kibo.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sniff....those were the days...sniff...
> > > > >
> > > > > JLF Sends...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --__--__--
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 18
> > > > > From: "Dennis Sacks" <>
> > > > > To: <>
> > > > > Subject: Re: New business startup help/suggestions/info needed
> > > > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 20:59:26 -0700
> > > > > charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > > > Reply-To:
> > > > >
> > > > > One concern about cyber cafes - have any of them been
> > > > successful anywhere?
> > > > > I've never been in one that has had many customers. I like
> > > > the idea of a
> > > > > cyber cafe in theory, but I'm not sure how it can be built
> > > > into a good
> > > > > business model.
> > > > >
> > > > > > It has been suggested to me that I issue cards of prepaid time
> > > > > > (such as 30 minute, 60 minute, up to 1000 minutes) for
> > > > various prices.
> > > > > > The cost is computed on a per-minute basis and the
> > larger cards
> > > > > > would reflect a discount).
> > > > >
> > > > > Prepaid cards are good business. You have the customer's
> > > > money (and can
> > > > > earn interest on it) and the customer has nothing but a
> > > > piece of plastic
> > > > > that they one day *may* use.
> > > > >
> > > > > > I am also looking at who would offer the best backbone service
> > > > > > (or should I go with more than one with an in-house peering
> > > > > > arrangement?), such as Cox, AT&T, QWEST, Sprint, MCI.
> > > > >
> > > > > The best backbone service will be offered by some company called
> > > > > OpNIX......maybe you've heard of us?
> > > > >
> > > > > Dennis Sacks
> > > > >
> > > > > Managed Services Geek, OpNIX, Inc. www.opnix.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --__--__--
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Plug-discuss mailing list -
> >
> > > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > End of Plug-discuss Digest
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________________________
> > > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your
> > > > mail doesn't post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to
> > > > write mail.
> > > >
> > > > Plug-discuss mailing list -
> >
> > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> > > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________________________
> > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your
> > mail doesn't
> > post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
> > >
> > > Plug-discuss mailing list -
> > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> > >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________
> > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your
> > mail doesn't post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to
> > write mail.
> >
> > Plug-discuss mailing list -
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >
>
> ________________________________________________
> See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't
post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail.
>
> Plug-discuss mailing list -
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>






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