Why is PHP not a "real" language?

[David Schwartz]

My opinion might not count for much since I don’t really program with PHP, although I spent about a year with V4 in 2000. I do enjoy looking at the language updates and seeing what small steps the PHP language Gods take each time it’s updated. In contrast to C++, PHP seems to be evolving at a snail’s pace. 

The issues about interpreted (aka, “scripting”) languages is bogus. Python is now the #1 most popular programming language in the world, and it’s interpreted. So there goes that theory.

https://skilldeck.org/learning/best-programming-language-to-learn

My take on PHP is that it has been in a stuck-in-the-middle state for >20 years, between being a “structured/procedural programming” and “object-oriented” language. Kind of like C++ was before V1.1 or so was introduced. 

Still, while you can use both to create OO code, you can also use both to write horrid code that runs just fine and doesn’t use any of the class-related language constructs.

Over the years, C++ has been embraced by the OOP community and you don’t see anybody demanding that C++ compilers be able to compile any old C code. The C standard is still evolving and it keeps taking on bits and pieces of things inspired by C++, but it’s really still not an OOP language.

But I’ve heard PHP coders constantly complaining about the fact that the use of classes in PHP kills performance. Yeah, as if Python users think that’s even relevant! Python is 100% OOP right out of the gate, and they seem proud of it. Both are interpreted, and both are probably about as efficient compared with a compiled language. (Are there any performance comparisons between equivalent PHP and Python apps?) 

If an OOP-based interpreted language can attain the "#1 most popular language” slot and nobody cares about the little bit of overhead that the OO part imposes on the execution time, then perhaps it’s time for PHP coders to suck-it-up and learn how to REALLY code in OOP idioms! Until then, it’s the PHP programming community that’s shooting itself in the feet, not the language. Get rid of the “holes” in the language that allow it to process old code that breaks all of the encapsulation rules and make the use of classes more direct rather than forcing the use of squirrly syntax that is constantly reminding people “this isn’t really an object-oriented language … but you can use it that way … IF YOU INSIST”.

This is 2022. Nobody teaches plain old structured/procedural programming any more — they don’t even say they’re teaching OOP, it’s just what all modern languages support today. Except PHP, which cannot seem to decide if it’s ever going to grow up and let go of its procedural roots.

(Perhaps a big part of the problem is all of the old procedural PHP code that people are scared to refactor. So instead they just start over in Python?)

-David Schwartz




> On Aug 27, 2022, at 7:11 PM, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Just in time to add another thread that might be as intense as the sysd...etc thread.
> 
> For years I have heard that people say PHP is not a real language.
> 
> One guy says interpreted languages are not real programming languages, they are scripting languages.  I guess way back when I was an xBase developer I must have not been a real programmer.  Back in the day The only compiled xBase was Clipper Summer 87 by Nantucket Corp.  I think it was possible to compile xBase code but I never did except with Clipper Summer 87.  I think Visual Fox was compiled...
> 
> Another says the barrier to entry makes it possible for non-professional programmers to get hired and to mess up the code base.  Isn't that a hiring manager's issue?
> 
> I think PHP is a great language and a lot of others must think so too.
> 
> I really liked the decade long ride with PHP 5. I think 7 brought some good changes in the area of speed and the removal of Register globals.
> 
> PHP must be doing something right because it is run by upwards of 80% of the websites on the Internet.
> 
> I do think the PHP team is moving too fast.  We now have version 8.
> 
> So what is wrong with PHP and where are we going in such a hurry?
> 
> And finally why does PHP have to be anything but simple stupid?
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