Right now my computer is in the shop.

[Michael]

wonderful. with breaking patches: is it fixed like the next day or is it
usually later than that?

On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 9:21 AM James Mcphee via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:

> arch has probably the best community (and wiki) in the business.  they
> also have a huge (and relatively simple) extended software library (AUR)
>
> the main reason most people will speak of arch is that it is a rolling (or
> streaming) release.  so with fedora or ubuntu, you get new versions every 6
> months or so and there may be upgrade scripts but you have to pay
> attention.  with arch, it's a constant release system.  this means in arch
> you tend to have the newer versions of stuff most of the time, not waiting
> on some arbitrary version release window.  the downsides of this is that
> with a locked version, you can generally count on patches not being
> breaking, while that is not a guarantee in arch.
>
> also.  arch is one of THE most customizable distros out there (that wiki
> is so good it's often better than other distros official commercial
> support).  if you can do the base install (a bit more involved than fedora
> or ubuntu), customizing your desktop isn't much of a jump.  Sure, you can
> do this with most other distros, i mean software is software, but with arch
> you don't have dependencies for chat clients reaching all the way up to
> base packages.
>
> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 6:15 AM Michael via PLUG-discuss <
> plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>
>> also, it was mentioned that arch has benefits..... what are those?
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 9:12 AM Michael <bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> thank yout for the advice.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 9:10 AM James Mcphee via PLUG-discuss <
>>> plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oh sorry, I must have buried the lead.  I use systemd linux systems for
>>>> my desktopy desktops (ubuntu and fedora mostly).  Aka, the ones i check
>>>> email, browse the web, play games on.  For my developery desktops I do not
>>>> use systemd, but that is born of pure frustration and malding.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 6:05 AM Michael via PLUG-discuss <
>>>> plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So do you recommend system d for a desktop? It assms you don't and
>>>>> then you do.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 8:44 AM James Mcphee via PLUG-discuss <
>>>>> plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> two main reasons.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> one is ideological.  the way systemd was put into the community
>>>>>> rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. i won't get into the details, you can
>>>>>> google for that whole war.  no sense bringing it up again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> two is simplicity.  systemd is now over a million lines of code.  to
>>>>>> put that into perspective, going by the mythical man month numbers, a
>>>>>> single good programmer can average understanding 2 pages of code a day in a
>>>>>> complex codebase.  That's 50 lines of code per day.  from the same source,
>>>>>> developers produce roughly 10 lines of code per day on average.  now,
>>>>>> there's a lot of give around these numbers, but you can get some idea of
>>>>>> the scale of trying to get a handle on it if there's a bug you need to work
>>>>>> with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a couple of bugs i've had to deal with in recent memory, extended udp
>>>>>> handling in resolved and console output (which was actually correct to
>>>>>> standard in systemd, but everyone had worked around the previous bug and
>>>>>> that workaround wasn't compatible with the systemd implementation).
>>>>>> neither of these were minor.  the resolved bug prevented adoption of dnssec
>>>>>> and the console thing required manual intervention of containers using it
>>>>>> (docker, k8s, etc).  i don't know if these things have been resolved either
>>>>>> in systemd or the container systems.  the problems in question forced a
>>>>>> rearchitecture of our projects as fixes were not going to be fast enough
>>>>>> and we haven't revisited them.  for the resolved issue, the systemd project
>>>>>> lead flat out said it wasn't a priority.  for the container/console issue,
>>>>>> you have to go back in time when the docker team wore "no, i will not merge
>>>>>> your systemd patches into our codebase" tshirts to conventions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> in conclusion, i use systemd for servers, desktops, and vms.  I find
>>>>>> it quite reliable in most cases.  i think it does a better job with login,
>>>>>> hal, service dependency, and mtab than the older system.  for my use case
>>>>>> of containers, it is entirely unnecessary and nothing but a headache.  for
>>>>>> my developer station, i mald quite enough and have no patience left to deal
>>>>>> with it when it inevitably creates issues (oh, no for this thing you need
>>>>>> to put your proxy settings 3 layers of abstraction down over here with this
>>>>>> particular format) and tend to use the simplest system possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 4:38 AM Michael via PLUG-discuss <
>>>>>> plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why would u not want system d?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 4:15 AM Steve Litt via PLUG-discuss <
>>>>>>> plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 2022-08-26 at 17:50 -0700, T. Zack Crawford via
>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss wrote:
>>>>>>>> > I would recommend not Manjaro because it's just a less-good arch
>>>>>>>> linux.
>>>>>>>> > I use Arch Linux. Depends what you're looking for, though.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or, Artix could be used in order to get the benefits of Arch
>>>>>>>> without systemd.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> SteveT
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> James McPhee
>>>>>> jmcphe at gmail.com
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> James McPhee
>>>> jmcphe at gmail.com
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
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>
>
>
> --
> James McPhee
> jmcphe at gmail.com
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-- 
:-)~MIKE~(-:
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