new thread: QoS, latency, bandwidth and the FCC/net neutrality debate

[Herminio Hernandez, Jr.]

I do understand those concerns, but those types of abuses have existed in
the past and were dealt with before there was Net Neutrality. I do really
think that the bigger threat from the big content providers and not the
ISPs.

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 7:12 PM, <techlists at phpcoderusa.com> wrote:

>
> I hear you.  If everyone would play fair I would think slicing up data
> usage is fair.  I watch a lot of YouTube, however I do not need 4k.  My
> main concern is for businesses who use the Internet to market and do
> business.  As you probably know there is a move from brick and mortar to
> online stores and more so to selling on Amazon.
>
> If there is no net neutrality and GoDaddy invests in timewarner, then
> timewarner could keep people from seeing your website that is hosted on
> HostGator. Then Godaddy could coerce you into moving to GoDaddy or pay a
> fee to GoDaddy or timewarner.
>
> I see some serious antitrust coming. We need to get ICAAN back and we need
> to keep the Internet the Wild West to some degree. I do see Google is
> headed for some antitrust law suites, and maybe Government oversight.
> Government oversight is scary given how corrupt our Government is.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2017-11-24 12:31, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. wrote:
>
> I will start with some thoughts on why I find the NN debate troubling.
> First there is a technical misunderstanding. NN is built on the idea that
> ISPs should treat all traffic equally. This concept is simply unrealistic.
> Bandwidth is a limited resource there is only so much data that a Ethernet
> port can transmit and receive. Also things like MTU size, latency, jitter
> all impact the reliable transmission of data which bring me to my other
> point. Not all traffic is the same. There are night and day differences
> between TCP and UDP traffic. For example UDP (which is what most voice and
> video is) is faster than TCP. The drawback to this is that UDP does not
> have the recovery features that TCP has in case of packet loss (ie sequence
> number and acknowledgment packets). There UDP applications are more prone
> to suffer when latency is high or links get saturated. To overcome this
> network engineer implement prioritization and traffic shaping to ensure
> these services are not impacted.
>
> As more content is consumed such as 4K video on the internet, the need for
> traffic shaping will only increase. Netflix already has the ability to push
> 100Gbps from their servers. That is a ton of data that needs to be
> prioritized by ISPs. This is not free there are serious costs involved in
> man hours and infrastructure. Someone needs to bear that cost. This is why
> I am not opposed to fast lanes. If Netflix is going to have ISPs ensure all
> of the massive amounts to data are push is delivered efficiently, then the
> ISPs should be free to charge a premium for this service. Netflix does not
> want to bear this cost, hense their support for Net Neutrality. They want
> the ISPs to bear the cost, but then result of that is we bear the cost via
> data caps.
>
> When you strip away all the slogans it all comes down to money and
> control. Data will be traffic shaped it is just who decides how unelected
> government bureaucrats pushing some public policy or market forces.
>
> Something else to consider a lot not all but a lot of the very same people
> who cry that the end of Net Neutrality will be end of free speech (no more
> free and open internet) have no issue saying Twiiter, Facebook, and Google
> (since they are 'private companies') have the right demonetize, obscure, or
> even ban individuals who express ideas that other deem "offensive". How is
> that promoting a "Free and Open Internet"?
>
> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Eric Oyen <eric.oyen at icloud.com> wrote:
>
>> well, as someone else suggested, a new thread.
>>
>> so, shall we start the discussion?
>>
>> ok, as mentioned, bandwidth is a limited resource. the question is How
>> limited?
>>
>> Then there is the question: can an ISP curtail certain types of traffic
>> (null route it, delay it, other bandwidth shaping routines)? How far can
>> they go?
>>
>> What really is net neutrality?
>>
>> lastly, what part does the FCC play, or should they?
>>
>> so, any thoughts on the above questions?
>>
>> -eric
>> from the central offices of the Technomage Guild, you got questions, we
>> got answers Dept.
>>
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