More dysfunctional Ubuntu-isms
Brian Cluff
brian at snaptek.com
Tue Nov 8 08:59:27 MST 2016
In my experience the server install is pretty much just a minimal
install that asks you at the end if you want to install certain typical
server software. I just normally just pick SSH server and then add
whatever I want after the first boot. I've always had less problems
installing the server over rather than the desktop install because of
the odd graphics card problems that pop up from time to time (but hardly
ever these days) since the server install uses a text based installer.
The server install will allow you easily install a basic system and then
install the proprietary graphics drivers afterwards skipping having to
have them to install in the first place.
The only real gotcha is that it takes longer to install since much of
your software (aka your entire desktop environment) will have to be
downloaded over the Internet rather than coming off of nice fast flash
drives or DVDs. You could, if you are in a hurry, install via the
server install disk and then use the packages on the desktop install to
feed your desktop install, but in the long run it probably won't save
you any time since you would still want to update everything over the
Internet and that would take just about as long. Then again, if you
have the server installed, you can actually be doing stuff to customize
your install at the same time that it's installing/updating so it's
probably all in all a speed win.
Brian Cluff
On 11/08/2016 12:49 AM, trent shipley wrote:
> What are some of the gotchas he can expect in installing: server ->
> delta desktop repository -> delta desktop gui -> no more than two days
> tweaking system? OR:
> desktop install -> delta server -> tweak?
>
> I'd expect using the server distro as the base to work better with a
> server enabled workstation, but that's just a layperson's hunch.
>
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 3:35 PM Brian Cluff <brian at snaptek.com
> <mailto:brian at snaptek.com>> wrote:
>
> Plus one for the server install DVD. If you are going to do
> anything out of the norm, always reach for the server install.
> Then just apt install kubuntu-desktop when everything is done
> installing.
>
> Kde neon is pretty good right now and about the only way to get an
> up to date kde experience right now, but it will still use the
> Ubuntu installer. It would probably be best for you to use the
> server install cd, then add the neon repositories, and then
> install the the neon-desktop
>
>
> Brian Cluff
>
> On November 7, 2016 1:17:07 PM MST, Stephen Partington
> <cryptworks at gmail.com <mailto:cryptworks at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Wow. you worked much harder with the desktop install media
> than i would have. I usually 86 the desktop install media and
> just use the server install media to get the LVM/Raid settings
> i want to use. i just have to remember to disable the network
> wait on boot.
>
> I am about to try something like this again for a while as
> Windows 10 is irking me again more and more.
>
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Michael Butash
> <mike at butash.net <mailto:mike at butash.net>> wrote:
>
> Sorry for the fire and forget, had to rebuild a data
> center for a customer over the weekend - I was just really
> hoping to have the darn box up before I left to work on it
> remote, such a simple feat normally, but I had no time for
> anyways.
>
> Rest inline...
>
>
> On 11/03/2016 03:54 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
>
> On Wed, 2 Nov 2016 18:38:24 -0700
> Michael Butash <mike at butash.net
> <mailto:mike at butash.net>> wrote:
>
> This is really why I have a hate/love relation
> with ubuntu, it never
> fails to disappoint. My road to 16.04 has been
> all upgrades so far,
> this time I'm using 16.04.1 cd's from scratch.
>
> Curious: What do you love about it? You seem like the
> kind of person
> who could work with any distro.
>
> Short answer, it usually works where others do not with my
> graphics, a 6-head amd video card which until recently, I
> used all ports on.
>
> Long story, probably tldr (you asked!), definitely
> love/hate...
>
> After my last straw with windoze and making the decision
> to force myself to use linux to both learn and abandon m$
> shitty ecosystem circa 2006, I tried a bit of everything
> disto-wise. I always loathed redhat and rpm hell (no, yum
> didn't entirely fix this, and much later), I came from
> slackware/open|freebsd/solaris background having no desire
> to go back, and oddly landed on Mandrake for a bit. Until
> I started hacking on it, and things came unglued.
>
> I decided to try Ubuntu after reading about debian roots
> I've heard praised (tried for 2 seconds, got annoyed,
> don't remember now why), I think 6.04 at the time, and
> oddly it "just worked".
>
> I didn't begin to have any real issues until 10.10 until
> the era of unity hell began, and they started trying to
> make Ubuntu install more idiot-proof for, well idiots.
> Sadly it removed all the good features like complex raid,
> crypto, and lvm setup, making it about as stupid as
> possible, but there was always the alt installer and just
> simply not using unity, if I could just get the damn os on
> a system. Thanks Canonical.
>
> They then pissed on that, fiddling with (breaking) the alt
> installer removing fdisk (it's what I used for my
> raid+crypto+lvm setup), and ultimately doing away with the
> alt installer all together as insult to injury. Again I
> worked around them in other ways, building my fs manually
> with an arch cd first learning how to build it all
> manually from busybox again, and trick the netboot
> installer into working over it. Thanks again Canonoical.
>
> Around 2014, I got really annoyed after dist-upgrade blew
> up my system that I decide to sojourn a bit and explore
> distros again with a new laptop I'd gotten. I couldn't
> even get fedora's vaunted installer to reproduce my
> raid+crypt+lvm setup, and despised the notion of going
> back to it anyways, but at the request of a friend that
> for some reason likes it, tried. Even tried Red Hat's
> official installer, more broken than fedora, scratch
> either/or. Tried Arch too, got to a desktop, and found
> hell with the AMD drivers and graphics capabilities in
> general.
>
> I settled on Mint Debian edition with Mate, as Cinnamon
> was all sorts of broken with compositing on even the most
> basic intel gpu, which seemed like instant fail. Mate was
> great, and used that for a bit until with some new ssd's
> I'd begun to rebuild my desktop with mint de mate, and
> found ATI graphic hell in my desktop. AMD only cares
> about fedora/ubuntu as a linux entity, knew it would
> likely work there, and again hacked ubuntu back onto my
> system. It's the same install I'm using today, and
> eventually moved my laptop back to ubuntu.
>
> What I really can't fathom is how Canonical can keep
> breaking their installers in such new and creative ways
> each time, and only I seem to notice, but then again, I
> expect linux features most people don't know even exist or
> care about like raid, crypto, or volume management.
>
> If BTRFS or ZFS supported better encryption, I'd love to
> use one native fs to do all the raid/crypto/lvm in it. I
> think as of this year, either/both might, so worth
> exploring, but I bet ubuntu's installers will still suck
> in dealing with them.
>
> Yes, AMD is a root evil for linux graphics and at times
> the kernels, but nvidia to this day still has not put out
> a 6-head video card like AMD that I actually use all 6
> ports of. Now I have 3x montiors (well, tv's), so this
> new one has a nice new 1070 card in it. Which thanks to
> their crappy business practices too of not releasing
> firmware immediately (that amd would decompile), I know
> nouveau has issues with, and the binary drive is
> necessary. I'm handy with cli here, not too worried, more
> that their drivers suck too these days.
>
> I really don't want to have to make a circle of
> distro's to end up
> back here again, but ubuntu is always so basically
> dysfunctional
> these days with the most basic things, it's hard
> to want to care.
>
> I wonder how much others have seen this. This is
> with legacy boot in
> bios, no uefi crap, and just a basic d-i based
> ubuntu server install,
> and/or kubuntu.
>
> I used Ubuntu for several years because it "just
> works." The trouble
> was, as I got more sophisticated, Ubuntu's seatbelts
> and airbags and
> danger sensing devices and training wheels and all
> that other stuff so
> necessary to the newbie badly got in my way.
>
> I agree, it feels almost childish to still use Ubuntu at
> this stage, but nothing else has worked suitably, and I'm
> somewhat tired of trying+disappointment when history has
> proven most others to be inadequate or worse.
>
> So I ditched Ubuntu for Debian, and that was great,
> but then Debian
> went systemd so I switched to Void Linux, and after a
> rocky 5 weeks of
> Void newbie-ism, Void has turned out to be the most
> useful, maleable
> and stable distro I've ever used. I've used Void for
> over a year now.
>
> That's why I tried Mint Debian Edition - figured deb it
> might suck less and just wanted a modern ui, but found
> that their driver support for AMD, or rather a support for
> modern versions thereof for graphics were fairly lacking,
> and no one from a major org cares enough to fix it. I
> simply could not get their kernel to take the amd driver,
> which was a non-starter. It's actually what drove me
> finally back to Ubuntu natively just for a working video
> solution, and at times keeps me bound.
>
> I think you've probably outgrown Ubuntu.
>
> See above. It tends to work great as long as I don't have
> to 1) install it via "normal" means or 2) upgrade it, both
> often suck these days. Both have simply continued to get
> worse and worse, and I only encounter them every few years
> out of necessity of they are also both my primary means of
> working as my own business. Once I hit 14.04 stable, I
> upgraded only upon absolute necessity core functions like
> kernel or desktop libs, and only essential apps that
> require them (browsers really), but otherwise didn't
> upgrade core until 16.04 when it released. That's been a
> current longer evolutionary story I'll get to eventually.
>
> BUT, as far as your current no-booting installer
> problem, I wonder if
> your media are bad. Just for fun, boot System Rescue
> CD and have a look
> around the system to verify no disk or RAM problems,
> and that the
> processor is what you think it is. If you can't boot
> System Rescue CD
> either, that points an accusing finger at your DVD drive.
>
> This is something I'd seen before actually, I'd mentioned
> another time about arch and disk-label usage. I don't
> think it's media, but who knows. My 10 year old spindle of
> dvd-r's might be breaking down by now, but first time I've
> seen this with a anything, why I tried both the built-in,
> and a usb, of which I've used hundreds of times to boot
> things, almost always said linux boxes over the past 10
> years, another not long ago.
>
> Also, try burning your disks with cdrecord (or wodim)
> instead of a gui.
> I use a command something like this:
>
> cdrecord dev=/dev/sr0 padsize=63s driveropts=burnfree \
> -pad -dao -v -eject myimage.iso
>
> The padsize=63s and -pad help with the Linux readahead
> bug. Burnfree
> means you don't unknowingly make coasters or bad discs
> if your computer
> can't deliver the data fast enough.
>
> If you perform the burn like I mentioned above, you
> *should* be able to
> md5 check the disc to the same md5sum as the iso file
> by following
> directions here:
>
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/coasterless.htm
>
> Interesting - I've not had to adjust a cd like that using
> k3b on linux ever or nero in win since doing so for
> pirated drm games. Only time seeing something like that is
> using unetbootin to make the usb where it doesn't know the
> iso expects a certain disk label to exist. This seemed
> more a sloppy iso build in the few hours I had with the
> system and ample frustration to write that.
>
> Thank you for that tidbit, I'll try it after I fiddle with
> the bios more on this. I'm going to try a kde neon build
> (really what I'm interested in more here), I just didn't
> have the time as it showed up 5 hours before I had to
> pack, sleep, and hop on a plane (sad, I know). It's a
> t7910 precision dell, more a server board than desktop, so
> I'd really expect better behaviour here on either pc or
> ubuntu.
>
> I'll update when I get to it tonight hopefully.
>
> HTH,
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> November 2016 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start
> Your Own Business
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz
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>
> --
> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent
> you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit
> the snooze button.
>
> Stephen
>
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