ot: problems
Michael Havens
bmike1 at gmail.com
Fri Sep 19 08:30:19 MST 2014
thanks, Jon. I think I'll take it in. I get the fan warning and the
internet switch still will not turn on when I'm running it off of the
battery.
:-)~MIKE~(-:
On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 5:12 AM, Jon Kettenhofen <subs at kexsof.com> wrote:
> Sure, a bad power supply will not only affect the fans but it can affect
> everything in the computer!
>
> What do you think? The power supply failed because it got too hot because
> the cooling fan did not do it's job? Maybe. But you won't be able to
> diagnose the fan or other failures until you determine the status of the
> power supply. Considering that you have seen multiple symptoms, it could
> point to either the power supply or the motherboard. The easiest way I can
> think of to diagnose the power supply is to trade power supplies with a
> duplicate quad system quad and see if the symptoms move to the duplicate
> quad system. If not, then the motherboard becomes suspect.
>
> I'm saying duplicate quad because quads draw the most power and the
> failure should be obvious on the duplicate. Otherwise if the symptoms did
> not show up on either system, then the diagnosis would be in doubt because
> it could be a power supply cable or connector and the exchange fixed the
> problem, possibly only temporarily (time will tell).
>
> On the other hand, if you just buy a duplicate (make sure it's for a quad)
> power supply and exchange the supplies, you won't be sure that the old
> power supply was bad or that you just fixed a cable problem - assuming you
> haven't ruled out the cable/connector at fault.
>
> I've seen power supplies on ebay for about $100 in the past but make sure
> the dealer is reputable whatever you pay - if you go that way.
>
> There's a fellow in Florida who repairs motherboards for PC's for $169 but
> I don't know if he does Mac motherboards and you have to pay postage to
> ship the board to him. (Pack it well and insure it!)
>
> If you replace the power supply and still have the symptoms, then can you
> return the extra power supply?
>
> Anyway, if you can boot and run, try the Apple hardware diagnostics if you
> have the DVD. Or if you have a copy of Tech Tool (Pro) try to boot that.
> It takes a while to boot because it does so with it's own system without
> violating Apple's copyrights, etc. I know Tech Tool Pro is stand alone and
> tests all the hardware because I use it. Since my Mac G5 is down, I don't
> know if it tests the power supply, but it should.
>
> Jon
>
>
>
>
> On 09/18/2014 09:35 PM, Michael Havens wrote:
>
>> so the power supply will affect the cooling fan? If so this might be an
>> easy fix. What about the internet switch? That was the first thing that
>> failed.
>>
>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Jon Kettenhofen <subs at kexsof.com
>> <mailto:subs at kexsof.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Michael,
>> BTW, Apple publishes a hardware diagnostic CD or DVD, in fact it may
>> be on the original install DVDs that came with the machine. If you
>> can boot the machine, see if you can run the diagnostics.
>> Jon
>>
>> On 09/18/2014 02:08 PM, Michael Havens wrote:
>>
>> Thefirst thing I di was to stick the live cd in. That didn't fix
>> a thing
>> plus that doesn't take care of the cooling fan issue..... did I
>> tell you
>> I get that notice right before bios takes over?
>>
>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Stephen Partington
>> <cryptworks at gmail.com <mailto:cryptworks at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:cryptworks at gmail.com <mailto:cryptworks at gmail.com>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Have you tried a live CD of any flavor to see if it persists?
>>
>> On Sep 18, 2014 8:35 AM, "Michael Havens" <bmike1 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>
>> when the keybosrd problem stsrted about 6 months ago
>> getting
>> another keyboard was the first thing I did and there was
>> no
>> problem with it when I attached an external keyboard. You
>> mentioned smoking being a problem? I've never done
>> that. You
>> wondered about the distro? I run Linux Mint.
>>
>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 6:08 AM, Lisa Kachold
>> <foobar at it-clowns.com <mailto:foobar at it-clowns.com>
>> <mailto:foobar at it-clowns.com <mailto:foobar at it-clowns.com>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> In order to work with the technician effectively,
>> you are
>> going to want to be closely involved with the work
>> process.
>> In this respect, you will ask him what he thinks
>> the problem
>> is, or what his first actions are, for instance if he
>> recommends a full diagnostic.
>>
>> But first, I would do some diagnostics myself
>> before taking
>> your equipment to the technician.
>>
>> IT IS A GOOD POSSIBILITY THAT THIS IS DUE TO MORE
>> THAN ONE
>> CAUSE (but all related to your distro or drivers)!
>>
>> If you are SMOKING or exposing the laptop to soot
>> of any
>> kind, you will want to clean the laptop completely
>> FIRST.
>>
>> Everyone has issues with the WIRELESS switch on older
>> equipment, just futz with it, as I have never seen
>> anyone
>> have it STAY BROKEN? But this clearly would be the
>> technician stage....
>>
>> Various diagnostic programs exist for linux, which
>> you might
>> consider before spending money on the technician,
>> to verify
>> power supply, bus, and CPU.
>>
>> Intel Proc Diagnostic for Linux:
>> https://downloadcenter.intel.__com/Detail_Desc.aspx?DwnldID=
>> __19792
>> <https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?DwnldID=19792>
>> PowerTop:
>> http://xmodulo.com/2013/06/__how-to-monitor-power-usage-in-
>> __linux.html
>> <http://xmodulo.com/2013/06/how-to-monitor-power-usage-in-
>> linux.html>
>>
>> What distro are you running? Known issues with KDE
>> and
>> Chrome with keyboard I/O are common (which I expect
>> is the
>> cause of your issues after applying a patch):
>>
>> http://forums.linuxmint.com/__viewtopic.php?f=18&t=53398&p=_
>> _306336&hilit=keyboard+stops+__working#p306336
>> <http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=53398&p=
>> 306336&hilit=keyboard+stops+working#p306336>
>>
>> Spares are your friend, so try an external keyboard
>> and see
>> if the issue follows that hardware (kernel driver)
>> switch,
>> then you can be sure that it is application/distro
>> based
>> rather than hardware based.
>> As for fan control, there are various tools and
>> again KNOWN
>> ISSUES (ArchLinux) with fancontrol under linux:
>> http://askubuntu.com/__questions/63588/how-do-i-get-_
>> _fan-control-working
>> <http://askubuntu.com/questions/63588/how-do-i-get-
>> fan-control-working>
>> Karmic:
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/__ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/__451337
>> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/451337>
>>
>> You can use a live distro to rule out your keyboard
>> issues -
>> divide and conquer.
>>
>> Using OSI Level debugging, you go to the layer
>> where the
>> issue exists and traverse up and down to adjacent
>> layers, so
>> clearly there is only the human level on the other
>> side of
>> the Physical Layer 1, which is where the problems
>> present
>> themselves, so the other direction would be the
>> drivers in
>> linux.
>>
>> You would rule out issues here with a systematic
>> diagnostic,
>> use of spares and intelligent research.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 8:54 PM, Michael Havens
>> <bmike1 at gmail.com <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>
>> What can I tell the service tech so I don't
>> sound too
>> stupid?
>>
>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 8:03 PM, Michael Havens
>> <bmike1 at gmail.com <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>
>> oh.... I forgot to say that none of the other
>> computers in my house seem to have been
>> affected
>> though it may be that it needs to be
>> power-cycled
>> and/or it may be something that only affects
>> wireless and something got on the phone
>> lines (my
>> home is on DSL).
>>
>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 7:50 PM, Michael
>> Havens
>> <bmike1 at gmail.com <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Thank you so much for the detailed
>> explanation,
>> Jon. You know.... I have a laptop and I
>> don't
>> have a MAC but I read your
>> troubleshooting
>> non-the-less. I got to the last
>> paragraph and
>> realized something that I was told
>> happened a
>> couple of days ago that might be
>> relevant. My
>> room mate was home when this happened
>> so this is
>> second-hand knowledge. She was watching
>> tv when
>> the power went out then, a second
>> later, there
>> was a big POP down the street (a
>> transformer
>> maybe?). Everything still worked with the
>> computer though; however, maybe it just
>> needed
>> to be power-cycled.
>>
>> Any other comments will be greatly
>> appreciated!
>>
>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Jon
>> Kettenhofen
>> <subs at kexsof.com
>> <mailto:subs at kexsof.com> <mailto:subs at kexsof.com
>>
>> <mailto:subs at kexsof.com>>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Michael,
>>
>> I'm curious, did you buy this quad
>> new or
>> did you buy it used or is it a work
>> computer
>> owned by a company? I get the
>> feeling that
>> you bought it used.
>>
>> There's almost always a reason for
>> failures
>> and it's usually a problem that can
>> be
>> isolated. If it's a part, it can be
>> replaced. If it's something else,
>> it can be
>> fixed.
>>
>> When stuff like this starts to
>> happen, it
>> may be one of three things: a loose
>> connection or a bad motherboard or
>> a power
>> supply. Apple builds solid
>> hardware but
>> sometimes it gets abuse or just
>> used in a
>> poor environment with too much heat
>> and/or
>> moisture or just takes a physical
>> beating -
>> they are rather heavy. Also quads, I
>> believe, have water cooling. I
>> have seen at
>> least one report of leaks. That's
>> usually
>> easy to rule out if there's no leaks.
>>
>> So where to begin? Well, the
>> pedant is back!
>>
>> You may want to take some anti-static
>> electricity precautions. First,
>> disconnect
>> the Mac completely from all
>> exterior cords,
>> wires, etc. Lay it on its side
>> where there
>> is plenty of light, a clean worktop
>> area and
>> a Phillips screwdriver. As you
>> have seen,
>> it's easily taken apart, at least
>> the easy
>> pieces need only your hands. Pull
>> the fans
>> out, take the video and other cards
>> out,
>> unhinge and pull the memory sticks
>> out and
>> so on until you are puzzled how to
>> get the
>> cooling shrouds out. (Don't do that.)
>> Inspect everything. Look for any
>> corrosion. Remove as much dirt and
>> dust as
>> you can with an air duster can
>> (take care
>> here, the these cans may contain
>> hydrocarbons that are flammable and
>> they
>> should not be inhaled!). If you
>> use an air
>> compressor, be gentle and use lower
>> pressure
>> less than 40psi. What you can't
>> get out
>> with air, start with a clean
>> microfiber
>> cloth and wipe without generating
>> static
>> (i.e. don't rub hard). Make sure
>> all the
>> connectors are clean and shiny before
>> reassembling.
>>
>> We call this clean and re-seat the
>> boards.
>>
>> Make sure you put the same memory
>> sticks
>> back into the same slots - it usually
>> matters or makes a difference. If
>> you don't
>> remember, read up on it from a
>> manual,
>> usually online at Apple.com.
>>
>> Memory sticks are tricky because
>> they often
>> won't reseat properly without strong
>> pressure. First, make sure the
>> middle slot
>> on the memory stick is lined up
>> with the
>> ridge in the bottom of the
>> connector. The
>> slots are offset from the middle on
>> purpose,
>> they are only supposed to go in one
>> way.
>> (Having burned out a memory stick
>> by forcing
>> it in backwards, I can speak from
>> experience! Won't do that again!)
>> The way to
>> handle this is to use two hands,
>> with thumbs
>> or your choice of fingers at each
>> end of the
>> board. Making sure the stick is
>> aligned
>> correctly in the connector; push
>> FIRMLY down
>> until both ends of the connector
>> snap into
>> the stick. Main logic boards are
>> epoxy and
>> embedded fiber, are very strong and
>> can take
>> a little flexing without
>> hurting them. Same with memory
>> sticks.
>>
>> Make sure the memory is seated well
>> - it may
>> take close inspection with a
>> flashlight. If
>> the sticks are all the same size,
>> then no
>> stick should be higher than the
>> lowest one.
>>
>> OK, reassemble the computer.
>>
>> Testing the power supply can be
>> difficult.
>> It's easier with a common desktop
>> PC because
>> the power connector is almost
>> always on top
>> of the board and easily
>> accessible. It's
>> not enough to test a power supply
>> out of the
>> computer because it won't be under
>> load.
>>
>> Here's how an expert taught me to
>> test the
>> power supply on a desktop PC (but
>> not a
>> Dell!) Take a meter and set it to DC
>> volts. There will be a pair of
>> test leads
>> with pointed ends to poke at things.
>>
>> You will push the points into the
>> connector
>> until it connects to the metal of the
>> connector sleeve. Connect the
>> common lead
>> to a black wire's connector. Test
>> all the
>> colored wires with the positive
>> (usually
>> red) meter probe. Here are the
>> correct
>> voltages for a PC:
>>
>> Yellow +12 Volts
>> Red +5 Volts
>> Purple +5 Volts
>> Orange +3.3Volts
>> Green don't test; this
>> turns on
>> the PC when shorted to black
>> White -5 Volts
>> Blue -12 Volts
>> Gray I think this one is for the
>> power-is-on LED
>> Brown Not sure about this one
>>
>> The important thing is that the
>> voltages are
>> nearly correct when the computer is
>> powered
>> on because that shows the power
>> supply to be
>> good when under a load.
>>
>> One other thing - sometimes a part
>> can
>> acquire a static charge which won't
>> dissipate properly. The only
>> remedy for
>> this is to wait until it discharges
>> (unless
>> you are a motherboard repair person).
>>
>> Things that have hurt my equipment is
>> usually near lightning strikes.
>> Lost one
>> treasured Mac to a lightning strike
>> that hit
>> the phone lines. Took out phones
>> for three
>> stories above me. Mac did not fail
>> right
>> away but eventually lost it (sniff
>> :( ).
>> Lightning strikes across the
>> strike have
>> taken out a couple ethernet ports
>> over the
>> years even though my equipment has
>> always
>> been on a UPS. Strong strike will
>> generate
>> an EMP which is sometimes picked up
>> by a
>> network wire of a resonant length.
>> Usually,
>> though, it's not serious but if the
>> storm is
>> bad, we'll turn off the electronics
>> until
>> it's past.
>>
>> I apologize for the length of this,
>> but you
>> get the idea of the lengths I go to
>> fix things.
>>
>> Best of Luck and let me know how it
>> turns
>> out if you have the time,
>> As always, take care.
>> Jon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 09/17/2014 06:27 PM, Michael
>> Havens wrote:
>>
>> first certain keys sometimes
>> don't work
>> unless I hold the key down and
>> then after a time the character
>> will
>> appear (sometimes multiple
>> times).
>> So it was recomended I pop the
>> keys off
>> and clean under them. So I do
>> and it doesn't fix the problem.
>> No
>> problem. I'll stick it under my
>> table
>> and attach wireless periphiels
>> too it.
>> Then I need to go visit my kids.
>> So I figure I'll suffer with the
>> keyboard problem. The day I
>> left for
>> Miami (at the airport) the
>> hardware
>> internet switch would not turn
>> on.
>> Then, after I arrive in Miami,
>> I turn on
>> the computer and a notice
>> appears at boot saying that
>> 'the cooling
>> fan is not operating properly'.
>> What problem do you think is
>> causing
>> this? I called my dad and he said
>> it sounds like the hard disk is
>> going
>> bad. He also said maybe the
>> keyboard controller (because of
>> the
>> internet switch).
>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------____---------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>> PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.__
>> __org
>>
>> <mailto:PLUG-discuss at lists.__phxlinux.org
>> <mailto:PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>>
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or
>> to change
>> your mail settings:
>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/____mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>> <http://lists.phxlinux.org/__mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss>
>>
>> <http://lists.phxlinux.org/__mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>> <http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------____---------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>> PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.____org
>>
>> <mailto:PLUG-discuss at lists.__phxlinux.org
>> <mailto:PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>>
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to
>> change your
>> mail settings:
>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/____mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>> <http://lists.phxlinux.org/__mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss>
>>
>> <http://lists.phxlinux.org/__mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>> <http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------__---------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>> PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.__org
>> <mailto:PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
>> <mailto:PLUG-discuss at lists.__phxlinux.org
>> <mailto:PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>>
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your
>> mail settings:
>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/__mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>> <http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> __---------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>> PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.__org
>> <mailto:PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
>> <mailto:PLUG-discuss at lists.__phxlinux.org
>> <mailto:PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>>
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail
>> settings:
>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/__mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>> <http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------__---------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>> PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.__org
>> <mailto:PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
>> <mailto:PLUG-discuss at lists.__phxlinux.org
>> <mailto:PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>>
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail
>> settings:
>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/__mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>> <http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------__---------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>> PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.__org
>> <mailto:PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
>> <mailto:PLUG-discuss at lists.__phxlinux.org
>> <mailto:PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>>
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/__mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>> <http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------__---------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.__org
>> <mailto:PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/__mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>> <http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------__---------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.__org
>> <mailto:PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org>
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/__mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>> <http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.phxlinux.org/pipermail/plug-discuss/attachments/20140919/0e219e54/attachment.html>
More information about the PLUG-discuss
mailing list