ot: problems
Jon Kettenhofen
subs at kexsof.com
Fri Sep 19 05:12:02 MST 2014
Sure, a bad power supply will not only affect the fans but it can affect
everything in the computer!
What do you think? The power supply failed because it got too hot
because the cooling fan did not do it's job? Maybe. But you won't be
able to diagnose the fan or other failures until you determine the
status of the power supply. Considering that you have seen multiple
symptoms, it could point to either the power supply or the motherboard.
The easiest way I can think of to diagnose the power supply is to
trade power supplies with a duplicate quad system quad and see if the
symptoms move to the duplicate quad system. If not, then the
motherboard becomes suspect.
I'm saying duplicate quad because quads draw the most power and the
failure should be obvious on the duplicate. Otherwise if the symptoms
did not show up on either system, then the diagnosis would be in doubt
because it could be a power supply cable or connector and the exchange
fixed the problem, possibly only temporarily (time will tell).
On the other hand, if you just buy a duplicate (make sure it's for a
quad) power supply and exchange the supplies, you won't be sure that the
old power supply was bad or that you just fixed a cable problem -
assuming you haven't ruled out the cable/connector at fault.
I've seen power supplies on ebay for about $100 in the past but make
sure the dealer is reputable whatever you pay - if you go that way.
There's a fellow in Florida who repairs motherboards for PC's for $169
but I don't know if he does Mac motherboards and you have to pay postage
to ship the board to him. (Pack it well and insure it!)
If you replace the power supply and still have the symptoms, then can
you return the extra power supply?
Anyway, if you can boot and run, try the Apple hardware diagnostics if
you have the DVD. Or if you have a copy of Tech Tool (Pro) try to boot
that. It takes a while to boot because it does so with it's own system
without violating Apple's copyrights, etc. I know Tech Tool Pro is
stand alone and tests all the hardware because I use it. Since my Mac
G5 is down, I don't know if it tests the power supply, but it should.
Jon
On 09/18/2014 09:35 PM, Michael Havens wrote:
> so the power supply will affect the cooling fan? If so this might be an
> easy fix. What about the internet switch? That was the first thing that
> failed.
>
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>
> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Jon Kettenhofen <subs at kexsof.com
> <mailto:subs at kexsof.com>> wrote:
>
> Michael,
> BTW, Apple publishes a hardware diagnostic CD or DVD, in fact it may
> be on the original install DVDs that came with the machine. If you
> can boot the machine, see if you can run the diagnostics.
> Jon
>
> On 09/18/2014 02:08 PM, Michael Havens wrote:
>
> Thefirst thing I di was to stick the live cd in. That didn't fix
> a thing
> plus that doesn't take care of the cooling fan issue..... did I
> tell you
> I get that notice right before bios takes over?
>
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>
> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Stephen Partington
> <cryptworks at gmail.com <mailto:cryptworks at gmail.com>
> <mailto:cryptworks at gmail.com <mailto:cryptworks at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> Have you tried a live CD of any flavor to see if it persists?
>
> On Sep 18, 2014 8:35 AM, "Michael Havens" <bmike1 at gmail.com
> <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com>
> <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> when the keybosrd problem stsrted about 6 months ago
> getting
> another keyboard was the first thing I did and there was no
> problem with it when I attached an external keyboard. You
> mentioned smoking being a problem? I've never done
> that. You
> wondered about the distro? I run Linux Mint.
>
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>
> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 6:08 AM, Lisa Kachold
> <foobar at it-clowns.com <mailto:foobar at it-clowns.com>
> <mailto:foobar at it-clowns.com <mailto:foobar at it-clowns.com>>> wrote:
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> In order to work with the technician effectively,
> you are
> going to want to be closely involved with the work
> process.
> In this respect, you will ask him what he thinks
> the problem
> is, or what his first actions are, for instance if he
> recommends a full diagnostic.
>
> But first, I would do some diagnostics myself
> before taking
> your equipment to the technician.
>
> IT IS A GOOD POSSIBILITY THAT THIS IS DUE TO MORE
> THAN ONE
> CAUSE (but all related to your distro or drivers)!
>
> If you are SMOKING or exposing the laptop to soot
> of any
> kind, you will want to clean the laptop completely
> FIRST.
>
> Everyone has issues with the WIRELESS switch on older
> equipment, just futz with it, as I have never seen
> anyone
> have it STAY BROKEN? But this clearly would be the
> technician stage....
>
> Various diagnostic programs exist for linux, which
> you might
> consider before spending money on the technician,
> to verify
> power supply, bus, and CPU.
>
> Intel Proc Diagnostic for Linux:
> https://downloadcenter.intel.__com/Detail_Desc.aspx?DwnldID=__19792
> <https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?DwnldID=19792>
> PowerTop:
> http://xmodulo.com/2013/06/__how-to-monitor-power-usage-in-__linux.html
> <http://xmodulo.com/2013/06/how-to-monitor-power-usage-in-linux.html>
>
> What distro are you running? Known issues with KDE and
> Chrome with keyboard I/O are common (which I expect
> is the
> cause of your issues after applying a patch):
>
> http://forums.linuxmint.com/__viewtopic.php?f=18&t=53398&p=__306336&hilit=keyboard+stops+__working#p306336
> <http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=53398&p=306336&hilit=keyboard+stops+working#p306336>
>
> Spares are your friend, so try an external keyboard
> and see
> if the issue follows that hardware (kernel driver)
> switch,
> then you can be sure that it is application/distro
> based
> rather than hardware based.
> As for fan control, there are various tools and
> again KNOWN
> ISSUES (ArchLinux) with fancontrol under linux:
> http://askubuntu.com/__questions/63588/how-do-i-get-__fan-control-working
> <http://askubuntu.com/questions/63588/how-do-i-get-fan-control-working>
> Karmic:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/__ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/__451337
> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/451337>
>
> You can use a live distro to rule out your keyboard
> issues -
> divide and conquer.
>
> Using OSI Level debugging, you go to the layer
> where the
> issue exists and traverse up and down to adjacent
> layers, so
> clearly there is only the human level on the other
> side of
> the Physical Layer 1, which is where the problems
> present
> themselves, so the other direction would be the
> drivers in
> linux.
>
> You would rule out issues here with a systematic
> diagnostic,
> use of spares and intelligent research.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 8:54 PM, Michael Havens
> <bmike1 at gmail.com <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com>
> <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> What can I tell the service tech so I don't
> sound too
> stupid?
>
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>
> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 8:03 PM, Michael Havens
> <bmike1 at gmail.com <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com>
> <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> oh.... I forgot to say that none of the other
> computers in my house seem to have been
> affected
> though it may be that it needs to be
> power-cycled
> and/or it may be something that only affects
> wireless and something got on the phone
> lines (my
> home is on DSL).
>
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>
> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 7:50 PM, Michael Havens
> <bmike1 at gmail.com <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com>
> <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com <mailto:bmike1 at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you so much for the detailed
> explanation,
> Jon. You know.... I have a laptop and I
> don't
> have a MAC but I read your troubleshooting
> non-the-less. I got to the last
> paragraph and
> realized something that I was told
> happened a
> couple of days ago that might be
> relevant. My
> room mate was home when this happened
> so this is
> second-hand knowledge. She was watching
> tv when
> the power went out then, a second
> later, there
> was a big POP down the street (a
> transformer
> maybe?). Everything still worked with the
> computer though; however, maybe it just
> needed
> to be power-cycled.
>
> Any other comments will be greatly
> appreciated!
>
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>
> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Jon
> Kettenhofen
> <subs at kexsof.com
> <mailto:subs at kexsof.com> <mailto:subs at kexsof.com
> <mailto:subs at kexsof.com>>> wrote:
>
> Hello Michael,
>
> I'm curious, did you buy this quad
> new or
> did you buy it used or is it a work
> computer
> owned by a company? I get the
> feeling that
> you bought it used.
>
> There's almost always a reason for
> failures
> and it's usually a problem that can be
> isolated. If it's a part, it can be
> replaced. If it's something else,
> it can be
> fixed.
>
> When stuff like this starts to
> happen, it
> may be one of three things: a loose
> connection or a bad motherboard or
> a power
> supply. Apple builds solid
> hardware but
> sometimes it gets abuse or just
> used in a
> poor environment with too much heat
> and/or
> moisture or just takes a physical
> beating -
> they are rather heavy. Also quads, I
> believe, have water cooling. I
> have seen at
> least one report of leaks. That's
> usually
> easy to rule out if there's no leaks.
>
> So where to begin? Well, the
> pedant is back!
>
> You may want to take some anti-static
> electricity precautions. First,
> disconnect
> the Mac completely from all
> exterior cords,
> wires, etc. Lay it on its side
> where there
> is plenty of light, a clean worktop
> area and
> a Phillips screwdriver. As you
> have seen,
> it's easily taken apart, at least
> the easy
> pieces need only your hands. Pull
> the fans
> out, take the video and other cards
> out,
> unhinge and pull the memory sticks
> out and
> so on until you are puzzled how to
> get the
> cooling shrouds out. (Don't do that.)
> Inspect everything. Look for any
> corrosion. Remove as much dirt and
> dust as
> you can with an air duster can
> (take care
> here, the these cans may contain
> hydrocarbons that are flammable and
> they
> should not be inhaled!). If you
> use an air
> compressor, be gentle and use lower
> pressure
> less than 40psi. What you can't
> get out
> with air, start with a clean microfiber
> cloth and wipe without generating
> static
> (i.e. don't rub hard). Make sure
> all the
> connectors are clean and shiny before
> reassembling.
>
> We call this clean and re-seat the
> boards.
>
> Make sure you put the same memory
> sticks
> back into the same slots - it usually
> matters or makes a difference. If
> you don't
> remember, read up on it from a manual,
> usually online at Apple.com.
>
> Memory sticks are tricky because
> they often
> won't reseat properly without strong
> pressure. First, make sure the
> middle slot
> on the memory stick is lined up
> with the
> ridge in the bottom of the
> connector. The
> slots are offset from the middle on
> purpose,
> they are only supposed to go in one
> way.
> (Having burned out a memory stick
> by forcing
> it in backwards, I can speak from
> experience! Won't do that again!)
> The way to
> handle this is to use two hands,
> with thumbs
> or your choice of fingers at each
> end of the
> board. Making sure the stick is aligned
> correctly in the connector; push
> FIRMLY down
> until both ends of the connector
> snap into
> the stick. Main logic boards are
> epoxy and
> embedded fiber, are very strong and
> can take
> a little flexing without
> hurting them. Same with memory sticks.
>
> Make sure the memory is seated well
> - it may
> take close inspection with a
> flashlight. If
> the sticks are all the same size,
> then no
> stick should be higher than the
> lowest one.
>
> OK, reassemble the computer.
>
> Testing the power supply can be
> difficult.
> It's easier with a common desktop
> PC because
> the power connector is almost
> always on top
> of the board and easily
> accessible. It's
> not enough to test a power supply
> out of the
> computer because it won't be under
> load.
>
> Here's how an expert taught me to
> test the
> power supply on a desktop PC (but not a
> Dell!) Take a meter and set it to DC
> volts. There will be a pair of
> test leads
> with pointed ends to poke at things.
>
> You will push the points into the
> connector
> until it connects to the metal of the
> connector sleeve. Connect the
> common lead
> to a black wire's connector. Test
> all the
> colored wires with the positive
> (usually
> red) meter probe. Here are the correct
> voltages for a PC:
>
> Yellow +12 Volts
> Red +5 Volts
> Purple +5 Volts
> Orange +3.3Volts
> Green don't test; this
> turns on
> the PC when shorted to black
> White -5 Volts
> Blue -12 Volts
> Gray I think this one is for the
> power-is-on LED
> Brown Not sure about this one
>
> The important thing is that the
> voltages are
> nearly correct when the computer is
> powered
> on because that shows the power
> supply to be
> good when under a load.
>
> One other thing - sometimes a part can
> acquire a static charge which won't
> dissipate properly. The only
> remedy for
> this is to wait until it discharges
> (unless
> you are a motherboard repair person).
>
> Things that have hurt my equipment is
> usually near lightning strikes.
> Lost one
> treasured Mac to a lightning strike
> that hit
> the phone lines. Took out phones
> for three
> stories above me. Mac did not fail
> right
> away but eventually lost it (sniff
> :( ).
> Lightning strikes across the
> strike have
> taken out a couple ethernet ports
> over the
> years even though my equipment has
> always
> been on a UPS. Strong strike will
> generate
> an EMP which is sometimes picked up
> by a
> network wire of a resonant length.
> Usually,
> though, it's not serious but if the
> storm is
> bad, we'll turn off the electronics
> until
> it's past.
>
> I apologize for the length of this,
> but you
> get the idea of the lengths I go to
> fix things.
>
> Best of Luck and let me know how it
> turns
> out if you have the time,
> As always, take care.
> Jon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 09/17/2014 06:27 PM, Michael
> Havens wrote:
>
> first certain keys sometimes
> don't work
> unless I hold the key down and
> then after a time the character
> will
> appear (sometimes multiple times).
> So it was recomended I pop the
> keys off
> and clean under them. So I do
> and it doesn't fix the problem. No
> problem. I'll stick it under my
> table
> and attach wireless periphiels
> too it.
> Then I need to go visit my kids.
> So I figure I'll suffer with the
> keyboard problem. The day I
> left for
> Miami (at the airport) the hardware
> internet switch would not turn on.
> Then, after I arrive in Miami,
> I turn on
> the computer and a notice
> appears at boot saying that
> 'the cooling
> fan is not operating properly'.
> What problem do you think is
> causing
> this? I called my dad and he said
> it sounds like the hard disk is
> going
> bad. He also said maybe the
> keyboard controller (because of the
> internet switch).
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>
>
>
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