Where'd the love go?

Mon Dec 1 22:08:20 MST 2014

I think something else is going on here. Could it be a technical limitation
of the PLUG website? I noticed double listing of events. Can't you list
this event, 1 time?

On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 3:30 PM, Michael Havens <bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> What is this bickering? I mean seriously, aren't we all in support of the
> advancement of Linux. Lisa's event is there to help people learn the
> capabilities of Linux so isn't that good enough reason to include it on
> Plug's website?
> ______________
> Lisa,
>
> to me, being someone who has a good relationship with PLUG and Hans, I
> feel that your post is offensive, not just to Hans, but to everyone who
> considers PLUG to be a positive influence for the greater metro Phoenix
> area.
>
> Can the functioning of PLUG be improved? Of course, like almost
> everything. I for my part appreciate the work PLUG (and by extension
> Hans) is doing, and given the demands of our individual lives, I believe
> it is commendable!
>
> Regarding your claims of sexual harassment, you might want to consider
> its definition (which, as you might now, governs the workplace). I found
> this link
> http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/sexual_harassment.cfm From the
> information I have, it seems unlikely that what you describe would
> qualify for sexual harassment!
>
> I think your post abundantly shows your displeasure with the way things
> are, and you don't have to repeat it any more. If you have such a low
> opinion of matters relating to PLUG, you always have the options to
> either branch out on your own, or find an organization with which you
> can have a better relationship.
>
> I wish you lots of success with the hackfest and other efforts you
> undertake, and I hope you are sufficiently motivated by their benefits,
> and can accept others making decisions about calendar entries that you
> disagree with.
>
> Walter
>
>
>
> On 11/30/2014 08:22 AM, Lisa Kachold wrote:
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> * > Hans/(All), > > PLUG (aka Hans [since actually no leadership was ever
> allowed] is > going to have to state the rules under which you are
> "dismissing" via > schedule removal a healthy regular popular venue. > >
> PLUG (aka Hans "Luft") is going to have to reference when those rules >
> were published and when they were delivered to me. > > EVERYONE has
> historically had their own website, because PLUG does not > allow: > > 1)
> Specific wording in announcements. > 2) Submitting additional announcements
> and extensive innovative content. > 3) Presentation postings. > > Examples
> of other historic users (in good standing) with their own > websites to
> support their presentations and community endeavors include: > > Ryan Rix >
> Alan Dayley > Joseph Sinclair > Brian Cluff > Alexander Henry > > The PLUG
> (lack of structure and rules/guidelines) consistent with > other cities of
> comparable sizes (specific examples are Seattle, Los > Angeles and
> Portland) has kept the group from becoming all that a LUG > can be. > >
> Older retired penguins have devoted thousands of hours and dollars > each
> year purchasing their own equipment for community venues like > Installfest
> without anyone in PLUG "leadership" even getting a 501(c)3 > rider under
> another PLUG to allow income tax relief. > > Here's a long list of past
> discussions that echo these limitations and >
> issues: > > http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20100205.085425.dbace92f.en.html
> <http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20100205.085425.dbace92f.en.html> > > http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20130508.020509.d70d1744.en.html
> <http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20130508.020509.d70d1744.en.html> > > http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20090806.163922.37c4d455.en.html
> <http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20090806.163922.37c4d455.en.html> > > http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20101108.063046.7219d889.en.html
> <http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20101108.063046.7219d889.en.html> > >
> The ramifications of PLUG (aka Hans "Luft") limiting announcements and >
> venues (like the HackFest) that promote continuing educational schools >
> (other than Mesa Community College [where he has been adjunct > teacher])
> are obvious. > > The ramifications of PLUG (aka Hans "Luft") "dropping" a 7
> year > successful event like the HackFest is HUGE. > > I have been long
> contacted by members active for many years who want > support to backup
> recommendations to disband the PLUG (or remove > "Presidential
> dictatorship") with a long laundry list of reasons from > sexual harassment
> (Example: Hans raising his wedding ring clad finger > to women as they wait
> to speak with him about PLUG matters during > public community events
> [which I have experienced twice myself]) to > outright misuse of funding (
> [tee shirts and donations from local > businesses] and PLUG
> interns/students raising money for sister project > ABLEConf) as well as
> inappropriate steering to classes at Mesa > Community College during
> "OpenSource" community venues. > > I have stayed out of escalation of those
> issues to other authorities, > but "Silence is DEATH" and a Linux Users
> Group where membership live > in threat of social ostracism and promote via
> "inner circle > relationships" (or make decisions like drop a healthy venue
> without > written rules or warning) is nothing more than a "GANG" and is >
> destined to die. > > 1) Please show me the rules under which removal of the
> HackFests from > the calendar was made? If there was a scheduling issue,
> why was I not > called or allowed to reschedule? Our security community and
> active > interns have been historically very changeable and this could be >
> easily arranged at DeVry University who also provide a rack at OneNeck. >
> 2) Please show me the rules that state posting a discussion to more > than
> one mailing list with the same content is disallowed? It is not > on any of
> the mailing list phxlinux.org <http://phxlinux.org> <http://phxlinux.org
> <http://phxlinux.org/>> pages? > > 3) And while we are talking about it,
> please show me the rules (in any > PLUG) that state that we can't have TWO
> PLUG EVENTS on the same day? > Is that because the website php CMS software
> won't allow it? [/LAUGH] > > I have a HackFest iPhone and Android app ready
> (which can be released > in the next week) to submit to Google Play and
> Apple Store. I will > happily leave the phxlinux.org <http://phxlinux.org>
> <http://phxlinux.org <http://phxlinux.org/>> and PLUG name out > of that
> code. > > Thanks for "allowing me" to continue to announce the HackFests on
> the > mailing lists. > > Happy ThanksGiving > > On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at
> 1:08 AM, der.hans <PLUGd at lufthans.com <PLUGd at lufthans.com> >
> <mailto:PLUGd at lufthans.com <PLUGd at lufthans.com>>> wrote: >> Am 29. Nov,
> 2014 schwätzte Lisa Kachold so:>> moin moin Lisa,>> I was curious as to why
> you have removed the Hackfests (2nd > Saturday of > every month) afrom the
> PLUG Calendar?> >> You've been acting as a seperate group for years. You
> have your > own web > site and mailing list for your group.> > >> You may
> continue announcing your events on the list, but please stop >
> cross-posting to multiple lists.>> ciao,>> der.hans> >> Hackfests have been
> going strong since 2008 and have students > from ITT and > strong support
> from DeVry where instructors provide extra > credit to their > security
> students for attendance.>> DeVry University provides a rack for PLUG use
> (providing it is > actually > used in context with student related open
> source activities) > at OneNeck > which is populated with a VMWare ESXi 5.5
> server, OpenVPN > server, Security > Onion, Metasploitable and other images
> for demonstration > purposes, all of > which has been built entirely with
> community contributed > assets and intern > effort. We contribute Kali CD's
> for lab demonstration use, > promotional tee > shirts and shared DefCon
> videos each year.>> We have a large following of local security
> professionals, > with visits from > University of Phoenix, Palo Verde
> Nuclear, Department of the > Army and > GoDaddy staff.>> I have received no
> notice related to any new requirements or > change?>> I have posted monthly
> announcements to the PLUG Announce list > since 2008 > and have never been
> notified of any other PLUG requirements?>> Please add this great linux
> security lab venue back to the > PLUG Schedule.>> 2nd Saturday of every
> month 11:00 - 2:00 PM. > DeVry University>> Thanks> >> -- > #
> http://www.LuftHans.com/ <http://www.lufthans.com/>
> http://www.PhxLinux.org/ <http://www.phxlinux.org/> > # A Polish friend of
> mine got an offer for a free account from > AOL. The > # login ID was
> "HELLO" and the passwd "CYMBAL". She says "cymbal" > is like > # a Polish
> word for "sucker". 'Hello sucker', a greeting from > AOHell :).> > > > >
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> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>
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