ot: Fourth Amendment... gone forever?

Wed Feb 13 10:21:20 MST 2008

'guess I'll come out from behind my lurking rock.....

If we must dichotomize the issue, then in addition to Michael Moore's
one-sided perspective of health care, you should watch John Stossel's 'Sick
in America' [1] reports -- it touches on facts Sicko neglected to report.
Together, a more accurate depiction of the pros and cons of government
health care is painted.

[1] http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel  (Sorry, no direct link to videos)

On 2/13/08, keith smith <klsmith2020 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> You have choices.  I think you are self-employed which puts all the
> choices in your hands.
>
> You can go back to old style insurance and get an indemnity plan where you
> pay 20% and they pay 80%, you can choose any HMO or PPO you like, or you can
> become self-insured.
>
> You have more options than any other person in  America because you are
> self-employed.
>
>
>
> *Craig White <craigwhite at azapple.com>* wrote:
>
>  very small risk pool and is the type of thinking that leaves people
> declaring bankruptcy from a single event.
>
> Craig
>
> On Wed, 2008-02-13 at 07:40 -0800, keith smith wrote:
> > You can become self insured.
> >
> >
> >
> > Craig White wrote:
> > On Tue, 2008-02-12 at 21:12 -0700, Jason Hayes wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 12 February 2008 7:14:33 pm Kristian Erik
> > Hermansen wrote:
> > > >
> > > > +1. For Michale Moore, you could tell he was holding back
> > to try
> > > > being "fair and balanced". Health care in the USA is a
> > joke compared
> > > > to the UK. You don't believe it? Watch the movie and ask
> > any of your
> > > > friends who have had care in both places...
> > >
> > > Or you can ask me. I endured the Canadian health care system
> > for over 30
> > > years. To clear things up, it's not the panacea you appear
> > to think it is.
> > > The US health care system -- expensive as it may be -- is
> > light years ahead
> > > of the Canadian and British systems.
> > >
> > > A few quick examples from my own life experience.
> > >
> > > 1) I had to wait over 18 months to get a simple, outpatient
> > operation to fix
> > > an inguinal hernia in late 2004. The only reason I was
> > "rushed" in at the 18
> > > month mark was that I was to the point where I could barely
> > function any
> > > more. If I hadn't pushed the issue, the surgeon's office
> > would have let me
> > > sit on the waiting list for my originally scheduled date --
> > six months later.
> > >
> > > 2) My mother waited over 2 years to get one hip replaced and
> > has waited over
> > > two more years to get the other done (four years and still
> > waiting).
> > >
> > > 4) My wife's step-grandfather was diagnosed with prostate
> > cancer in November
> > > last year and was told that he will need to wait until June
> > to get in to see
> > > the specialist to determine how they will treat his cancer.
> > Eight months of
> > > letting the cancer grow before they will even take a first
> > look at it.
> > >
> > > 5) My wife and I lived in Calgary, AB for five years. In
> > that time, we were
> > > only able to get our kids into a pediatrician once, after we
> > were referred by
> > > another doctor. Additionally, none of the doctors we could
> > find were taking
> > > on new patients, so any time we needed health care, we went
> > to walk-ins
> > > (urgent care) or the emergency room.
> > >
> > > Those are the first few examples that come to mind. If I
> > needed to, I could
> > > dig up a lot more.
> > >
> > > Regarding your first assertion, Michael Moore doesn't have
> > the first clue what
> > > life is like under socialized health care and you don't see
> > him traveling to
> > > Cuba for his check ups and surgery, do you?
> > >
> > > The simple truth is that people are dying on wait lists in
> > Canada, Great
> > > Britain, and France. Worse, they're made to wait like that
> > after having paid
> > > 50%+ taxes for their "free" health care.
> > >
> > > Don't fall for it. The grass is not greener on the other
> > side of that fence.
> > ----
> > oh but it is...
> >
> > In any of the countries you mention above, you are not subject
> > to
> > exclusions for pre-existing conditions, large deductibles,
> > medical
> > decisions made by health insurance companies and of course, of
> > all the
> > countries mention, this is the only one where people routinely
> > have to
> > declare bankruptcy because of the phenomenal costs of health
> > care, and
> > this hits both insured and uninsured people.
> >
> > Then add to the equation the vast numbers of uninsured, the
> > percentage
> > of the nations GDP that is given to the health care industry
> > (and
> > rising) and the cost escalations for health care the last 5
> > years and
> > the projected increases in health care costs over the next 5
> > years and
> > it is clearly a system that is deeply broken.
> >
> > For every 'horror story' that you list above, there are surely
> > 10 horror
> > stories in the American health care system...
> >
> >
> http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-kaiser4may04,0,335770.story?track=tothtml
> >
> > Oh yeah, this is a great health care system we have here in
> > the US...
> >
> > Craig
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------
> > Keith Smith
> > (520) 207-9877
> > PHP Programmer
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> Keith Smith
> (520) 207-9877
> PHP Programmer <http://www.netcodeman.com/>
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