Help getting experience
Joel Dudley
plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:32:53 -0700
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As a faculty member at ASU that works with many student programmers I have a
few comments to share with you. Are you majoring in computer science so you
can program 9-5 or are you geting into computer science because you want the
luxury of getting paid for your passion? Both scenarios are valid, however
the paradigms involved in the two scenarios can have a great affect on your
ability to achieve your desired professional role. If you simply want to
program 9-5 and check your code-fu at the door when you come home (which is
perfectly acceptable) chances are that 99% of your programming efforts go
towards class work. If you are passionate about programming you've likely
spent late nights in front of the monitor developing some new firmware for
your toaster oven because the firmware that came with it always burns your
toast. Of course, in this scenario, the individual will likely put projects
like toaster firmware and Kids In The Hall MPEG-4 web bots at a higher
priority than his/her schoolwork. Although this individual's grades may be
mediocre at best, their passion for development will be overwhelmingly
apparent to anyone who inquires. In my experience people who see programming
as simply a job are somewhat detached from their projects (Not always
however) and will simply do what it takes to meet the requirements.
Passionate developers usually exceed all requirements due to the personal
pride associated with quality of the product. Ideally, in my opinion, one
would be passionate about their professional goals AND get good grades to
reflect their passion in their work. Consider a scenario in which an
employer has to choose between two applicants. The first applicant is a good
programmer, got great grades in school, has a good work ethic, and portrays
a professional demeanor. The second applicant has average grades but is the
primary investigator for four Source Forge projects and talks excitedly and
at length about his projects as if they were his children. Both of these
individuals are qualified for the position, but in my experience it is the
second applicant that will get the job.
The tone of your message makes it sound as if you would "settle" for any
computer job although you are really interested in networking. Don't settle,
get some 486's at ASU surplus for $5 a piece and network them together.
Develop some strange network software (Bayesian route path determination,
Intelligent route caching) and throw it up on Source Forge. This is how you
create experience for yourself and demonstrate your passion for your desired
professional domain. I hope this made sense and was helpful to you in some
way. Of course all opinions expressed in this message are not necessarily
the views of Arizona State University.
Joel Dudley
Faculty Research Associate
Arizona State University
Kumar Laboratory of Evolutionary Functional Genomics
http://lsweb.la.asu.edu/skumar/
-----Original Message-----
From: MCR [mailto:mike1071@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 7:22 PM
To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
Subject: Help getting experience
I have a question to ask of the group. Maybe a favor,
so to speak. I am starting my junior year at ASU in
Computer Science. Right now I work in a Hotel, and I
really don't like my job. I keep trying to apply for
jobs in the computer field, however I have never had a
job of this type before, which is making it difficult
for me.
My question is would anyone be willing or able to help
me get experience, so I can get a job in the Computer
field. I am highly interested in Networking, but any
work involving computers would be good. I am working
toward a career as a software engineer, so even
programming would work. If someone would be willing,
the idea I have is if someone would be willing to take
me on as an apprentice for a couple of months
to teach me the "ropes". I would be willing to work
part-time, and for free, in exchange for the knowledge
and a recommendation /reference if it is deserved.
If you think you might be able to help me, please
contact me off list at:
mike1071@yahoo.com.
Thank You,
mike
__________________________________________________
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<TITLE>RE: Help getting experience</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>As a faculty member at ASU that works with many =
student programmers I have a few comments to share with you. Are you =
majoring in computer science so you can program 9-5 or are you geting =
into computer science because you want the luxury of getting paid for =
your passion? Both scenarios are valid, however the paradigms involved =
in the two scenarios can have a great affect on your ability to achieve =
your desired professional role. If you simply want to program 9-5 and =
check your code-fu at the door when you come home (which is perfectly =
acceptable) chances are that 99% of your programming efforts go towards =
class work. If you are passionate about programming you've likely spent =
late nights in front of the monitor developing some new firmware for =
your toaster oven because the firmware that came with it always burns =
your toast. Of course, in this scenario, the individual will likely put =
projects like toaster firmware and Kids In The Hall MPEG-4 web bots at =
a higher priority than his/her schoolwork. Although this individual's =
grades may be mediocre at best, their passion for development will be =
overwhelmingly apparent to anyone who inquires. In my experience people =
who see programming as simply a job are somewhat detached from their =
projects (Not always however) and will simply do what it takes to meet =
the requirements. Passionate developers usually exceed all requirements =
due to the personal pride associated with quality of the product. =
Ideally, in my opinion, one would be passionate about their =
professional goals AND get good grades to reflect their passion in =
their work. Consider a scenario in which an employer has to choose =
between two applicants. The first applicant is a good programmer, got =
great grades in school, has a good work ethic, and portrays a =
professional demeanor. The second applicant has average grades but is =
the primary investigator for four Source Forge projects and talks =
excitedly and at length about his projects as if they were his =
children. Both of these individuals are qualified for the position, but =
in my experience it is the second applicant that will get the job. =
</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2> The tone of your message makes it sound as if =
you would "settle" for any computer job although you are =
really interested in networking. Don't settle, get some 486's at ASU =
surplus for $5 a piece and network them together. Develop some strange =
network software (Bayesian route path determination, Intelligent route =
caching) and throw it up on Source Forge. This is how you create =
experience for yourself and demonstrate your passion for your desired =
professional domain. I hope this made sense and was helpful to you in =
some way. Of course all opinions expressed in this message are not =
necessarily the views of Arizona State University. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Joel Dudley</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Faculty Research Associate</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Arizona State University</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Kumar Laboratory of Evolutionary Functional =
Genomics</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><A HREF=3D"http://lsweb.la.asu.edu/skumar/" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://lsweb.la.asu.edu/skumar/</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> </FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: MCR [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:mike1071@yahoo.com">mailto:mike1071@yahoo.com</A>]</FONT>=
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 7:22 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Help getting experience</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I have a question to ask of the group. Maybe a =
favor,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>so to speak. I am starting my junior year at =
ASU in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Computer Science. Right now I work in a Hotel, =
and I</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>really don't like my job. I keep trying to =
apply for</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>jobs in the computer field, however I have never had =
a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>job of this type before, which is making it =
difficult</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>for me. </FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>My question is would anyone be willing or able to =
help</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>me get experience, so I can get a job in the =
Computer</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>field. I am highly interested in Networking, =
but any</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>work involving computers would be good. I am =
working</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>toward a career as a software engineer, so =
even</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>programming would work. If someone would be =
willing,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the idea I have is if someone would be willing to =
take</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>me on as an apprentice for a couple of months =
</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>to teach me the "ropes". I would be =
willing to work</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>part-time, and for free, in exchange for the =
knowledge</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>and a recommendation /reference if it is =
deserved.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>If you think you might be able to help me, =
please</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>contact me off list at:</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
SIZE=3D2> &nb=
sp; mike1071@yahoo.com.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT =
SIZE=3D2> &nb=
sp; =
Thank You, </FONT>
<BR><FONT =
SIZE=3D2> &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; </FONT>
<BR><FONT =
SIZE=3D2> &nb=
sp; =
mike</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
SIZE=3D2> &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; </FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT =
SIZE=3D2>__________________________________________________</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Do You Yahoo!?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World =
Cup</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><A HREF=3D"http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT =
SIZE=3D2>________________________________________________</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>See <A =
HREF=3D"http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml</A> if =
your mail doesn't post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to =
write mail.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>PLUG-discuss mailing list - =
PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><A =
HREF=3D"http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss" =
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