[azipa] Re: Contract Position Available

Fri, 23 Aug 2002 18:52:10 -0700 (MST)

> But, as you've stated, paying what the market will bear is what they are
> doing.  We're just not all willing to agree that it might be the new
> reality.

I second what Brent said...

All I can say is that they'll get what they pay for.
That isn't enough for a professional to be a professional about it, it's
an insult.  It is NOT a new reality.  Don't think anyone they hire at $10
an hour will stay around to support it when market conditions get better. 
Sure they'll build it for $400 now.. later they'll pay $100 an hour to
support it :)

Hire them at $10 an hour and you'll get $10 an hour worth of their effort,
and $0 worth of responsibility for what they produce.  They may build your
application and it will work very well, but $10 isn't enough for them to
take the additional effort to ensure that the application will scale
beyond your current needs.  They will not perform adequate planning and
design, or document it well enough so that you can bring in more down and
out programmers to ruin your company.

You won't get the data model (ER Diagram, entity descriptions, constraint
descriptions, table instance charts,etc), UML class diagrams, flow charts,
program flow diagrams,etc.  You'll get whatever they can throw together
with the least amount of effort, because at that rate they will put far
more effort into searching for another job than building your $400
application.

You can have it:
FAST..
CHEAP..
RIGHT..
PICK TWO.

>
> I'd also say that there isn't necessarily a correlation between salary
> and ability. I'm sure we've all worked with folks getting paid a whole
> lot more money than we were that could only talk the talk, or were only
> experts in their last environment.  You know the type - in charge of 50
> servers in their last job, had no idea what went on outside of the
> server room.

Shhh... he's reading your email right this minute.. (grin)

Probably the same way you had no idea clue went on inside the server room :)
Sure they were experts on their last environment.. and will be experts on
the current environment soon enough.  It wasn't his job to get involved
with aspects outside of the server room.

With responsibility comes they pay that goes with it.  Screw up 50 servers
and the whole company is down, keep it all running perfectly and nobody
understands why they need you :)  (When I did wrong I heard it ever, when
I did right I heard it NEVER)   This is the guy that maintains the
infrastructure to enable you to do your job, you'll only notice when he
screws it up.

Not to say there aren't some 'paper MCSE' people out there :) Clueless
people don't last long.. they're soon promoted to management where they
can do the least amount of damage.

>
>
> Ray Zorz
> Business Development Manager
> NetShore Programming Corp.
> 623-551-9422
> mailto:rzorz@netshoreprogramming.com
> www.netshoreprogramming.com
> "High Value Programming"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brent.Erbe@metriscompanies.com
> [mailto:Brent.Erbe@metriscompanies.com]
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 9:41 AM
> To: azipa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re:RE: [azipa] Re: Contract Position Available
>
>
>
> ECON 101 + BUS 101
>
> It really comes down to how critical the project is and how one values
> proper
> development and successful implementation.  If my softball league needed
> a
> website, I wouldn't care if I found someone to do it for free (And, in
> fact, we
> have).  However, if my business needed a site that accepted credit cards
> and
> logged those transactions in a database, I would request quotes - then
> take one
> on the low end.
>
> In my experience, searching for contractors (in any business) that are
> willing
> to take far below market value just isn't worth it.  More often than
> not, this
> practice results in low quality product/service, low level talent/skill,
> bad
> morale, and/or high turnover.  Pay what the market will bear.  No More -
> No
> Less.
>
> The old adage is true: You get what you pay for.
>
> Brent Erbe
> Metr1s Companies
> brent.erbe@metriscompanies.com
>
>
> ____________________Reply Separator____________________
> Subject:    RE: [azipa] Re: Contract Position Available
> Author:     "Sean M. Hays" <smh@seanhays.com>
> Date:       8/23/02 12:43 AM
>
>
>
>
> ECON 101
>
> SUPPLY vs DEMAND
>
> If someone wants to offer a job for $5 an hour and someone else would be
> happy to work for that amount, then we have two happy people.
>
> If someone wants to get paid $150 an hour and someone else is willing to
> pay
> that amount, again, we have two happy people.
>
> Pretty simple.
>
> Just throwing in my 3 cents => inflation.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: k_e_moeller [mailto:mkarl2@uswest.net]
> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 2:04 PM
> To: azipa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [azipa] Re: Contract Position Available
>
>
> --- In azipa@y..., "Sylvia Dahlby" <sylvia@a...> wrote:
>>...For the under-employed and unemployed, it's not a good idea
>> to turn one's nose down at an opportunity to keep working, sharpen
> your skills, and add to your resume even if it means a temporary pay
> cut.
>
>> Sylvia Dahlby
>
>> SmartSearch Online
>> Staffing management software from APS, Inc.
>>
>> http://www.smartsearchonline.com
>
> Well, Sylvia, I sure wouldn't want YOU searching for my next
> position.  Your motives and sympathies are purely on the beleaguered
> employer's side, enthusiastically recommending that professionals
> knuckle under to low offers and resign themselves to earning a barely-
> living wage.
>
> I hope that professionals reading this remember the economic
> advantage that employers and their hiring lackeys are attempting to
> impose on the backs of the people actually performing the work.
>
> I wonder, Sylvia, how long you and YOUR household could stay afloat at
> $10.00 per hour?
>
> Karl Moeller Tucson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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