Alan chimes in:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Alan Dayley
Date: Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: PLUG: Mail Lists, IRC & Meeting Organization Coordination and Unity
To: Lisa Kachold
Interesting discussion, Lisa.
I must first come clean with what is probably obvious by now. I have
not been actively involved with PLUG for at least a year, maybe
longer. The last time I did something specific for PLUG was to help
move our server to Deru. I apologize for not making my lack of
involvement clear to everyone. I still support Linux and the need for
PLUG but my spare time allocations are now elsewhere.
I appreciate Hans, Lisa and others for keeping me in the loop on
things, even when I've been AWOL. And to be involved in this
discussion is a sign of respect that I do not take lightly. Thank
you.
Now to the point with comments inline below...
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:02 PM, Lisa Kachold <
lisakachold@obnosis.com> wrote:
> Historically, Hans has maintained the PLUG email lists in compliance
> with the rest of LUGs across America in non-moderated fashion.
> Various PLUG controversies about the lists have consistently been
> waged:
>
>
> A GREAT MANY PEOPLE HAVE LEFT PLUG DISCUSS because of these issues:
>
> 0) Job Post clogs (even from other cities/states)
> 1) Chattiness of the List Members.
> 2) Off-topic Posts.
> 3) Posts from PLUG members who don't address the technical question at hand.
> 4) Threads that have degenerated to a personally negative level clog
> inboxes in email war fashion.
> 5) Distro warz & Microsoft bashing floods boxes that are only
> interested in learning.
> 6) Politics.
I started being involved with PLUG in May 2000. For at least 7 years
the number of angry posts to the plug-discuss were almost none. The
off-topic and other stuff is a relatively recent change that has
saddened me.
> Many have suggested that PLUG Discuss slice up to a greater group
> format like other UGs, to include:
>
> PLUG OT
> PLUG Politics
> PLUG Security
> PLUG JobPosts (this exists already)
This idea has been discussed several times recently. I agree that the
reasons for doing this are now beyond the reasons for not doing it.
> Hans or Alan PLEASE create these lists (I don't have access unless I
> hack Mailman from root on the server):
> http://lists.plug.phoenix.az.us/cgi-bin/mailman/create
I no longer have access to do this. Not from action on the part of
someone "locking" me out but because I don't remember the passwords
anymore. It's been a long time since I have used them. Given that my
PLUG involvement is nearly null, I don't think I am the right one to
execute this, in any case. I would like to see it done.
> Others want a member to be appointed to moderate lists or at least
> moderate the PLUG discuss. Old time members will leave if they have
> to endure moderation.
Splitting the list to other topics if far preferable over moderating
for many reasons. Do the new lists first and see if moderation is
needed.
> Archives of threads with valuable information are not available from
> our Drupal mailman installation, but are archived on other sites who
> pick up the RSS feeds. Why is this?
I don't understand what "Drupal mailman installation" is. The
plug-discuss archive is where it has been for years:
http://lists.plug.phoenix.az.us/lurker/splash/index.html
And a blank search shows posts from today:
http://lists.plug.phoenix.az.us/lurker/search/20111201.070000.00000000@.en.html
If the Lurker database is inadequate or not wanted, the data should be
moved somewhere else, I guess.
----[clip detail stuff about bad behavior and consequences]----
A tale of sadness and woe.
Technical measures will keep out such behavior only so much and become
costly to the good communication. Humans are odd and unprofessional
behavior happens. The culture of the group is the only way to keep
such under control. If the well behaved don't speak up, don't backup
those who speak up, wait for others to speak up or just leave, the bad
behaviors become the norm.
----[clip detail stuff about poor management and consequences]----
I once described PLUG as a "benevolent dictatorship"
(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictatorship) The Steering
Committee is the dictator. A soft, friendly dictator, willing to
change direction if the group desires a change.
And then the dictator (the Steering Committee) got burned out, too
busy, distracted. And the group did not know how to get the committee
back or to create a new one. And the group floundered.
I am so sorry to have been a major source of the distracted dictator.
Very sorry.
> Overall, I would like to request that everyone model unity, foster
> respect and win-win solutions. Please leave off the gossip and
> personal nattering over imagined wrongs and try to implement solutions
> using technology, asking Hans for direct solutions or commitment until
> PLUG gets over these growth pains or economic strife while
> communicating to the right source directly will help.
>
> Since the Email lists currently are not moderated, please respect each
> others free speech. Privately suggest others take personal
> discussions off list, or to another list. If we all follow these
> simple policies, reminding each other politely with a nice request, we
> will foster unity and ensure a safe place for everyone to play.
Excellent advice!
> Others have started non-profit endeavors in Arizona here, under which
> a LUG might be in the works, completing in various ways, built upon a
> role based signup Drupal with roles and presentations etc.
Really? Another LUG? Hans is well aware that I think Phoenix should
be able to support 6 or more basic LUGs. They could then pool efforts
for larger events when that makes sense.
If someone is starting up another LUG, I am glad to see it. To the
extent such may damage PLUG, I am saddened. But then, competition is
good in most all arenas. It is the group's job to keep PLUG relevant.
> The mere change that allows people to signup for their own
> volunteering, including setup/signup to present a training event or
> talk, and get reminders out for everyone of it, builds community,
> provides users a way to have some control over their UG, etc. And
> might very well be the item that causes great success in a PLUG for
> this huge number of professional Nix people in Arizona.
Another excellent point.
If I may offer another suggestion.
I previously referenced the need for re-invigorating or even replacing
the Steering Committee. I am not advocating some sort of coup or
overthrow. I am suggesting that we need a responsive leader role,
committee or person to help energize the group out of the current
difficulties. Since PLUG does not have a defined forum for such a
need, nor a succession plan, we must figure it out. Other measures,
such as better behavior, a volunteering system and other things are
needed immediately. But for the long term, the governance of the
group must be addressed. We have seen the consequences of one of the
weaknesses of the current system. We should fix it.
> Thanks for lending me your ear.
Thank you for speaking up!
Alan
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