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Thanks for your feedback David!!

Here is where I am coming from.  I think there are 3 types of people.  
System Admin, business folks, and hobbyists.  I used to have a friend 
who is a sys admin and a programmer.  He does all his own hosting.  
There is a person on the list that has referred to his home lab a few 
times.  I suspect most have some level of a home lab.

I was doing some research and found there is demand for learning how to 
build and maintain a web server out of ones home/home office/home lab.

My commercial advice is don't do it.  Much cheaper to rent shared 
hosting or a VPS. That is my advice to a business owners.

Having said that I was able to configure an old laptop as a web server + 
Bind+Postfix+Dovecot+let's Encrypt... and possible some other packages.

I did it to learn and in the end I liked the fact that I could do so. As 
you know I am a PHP dev. I made mention at the time that I had bragging 
rights.  Was a big accomplishment for me.  I assume being able to build 
a full stack web server pushes me in the realm of being a full-stack 
developer.

The motivation for this post was based on some research I performed that 
showed there is a fair amount of interest in leaning how to build and 
maintain a web server out of ones home/home office/home lab.

I posted hoping for feedback on what others might know of the demand.

I learned a lot the first go around and would like to learn more.  And 
as you know I have a YouTube channel and blog.  I would like to share my 
experience with others.

Keith



On 2025-04-19 21:47, David Schwartz via PLUG-discuss wrote:
> I guess this all depends on if this is just a hobby for you or 
> something you want to make money from.
> 
> Here’s my opinion; it’s not exactly what you’re wanting to hear, but 
> it’s a legitimate option… I may have mentioned it before.
> 
> Take a look at Latenode. It’s an automation service, functionally 
> similar to Zapier, Make, Pabbly, and others, but I think its a lot more 
> affordable.
> 
> Most web apps these days require logic to be hidden in a back-end 
> service to keep people from accessing your keys. As a result, the 
> majority of things the back-ends do is forwarding requests on to other 
> services, including DBs, AIs, and other things.
> 
> I really do not want to deal with my own server ANYWHERE — at home or 
> anywhere else in the world, especially if I can build little modular 
> services accessible as webhooks on an automation platform. The servers 
> they run on are fast, scalable, and made for heavy-duty use. (Mostly 
> cloud-based, I’m guessing.)
> 
> I can’t speak to the security issues, but nothing I’m doing is worse 
> than keeping my backend “secret keys” out of reach from the front-end 
> users. (If you don’t, they end up in your browser in clear-text and 
> they can be scraped without much trouble.)
> 
> If you’re really that paranoid and worried about stuff that it makes 
> sense to become an expert on all of those server-side tools on a server 
> you keep hidden in your home or office, then knock yourself out. I 
> don’t care; I don’t want to care, or even keep up with the changes 
> they’re constantly undergoing. I want to be able to quickly set up a 
> proxy to sit between my front-end and some other service that gets me 
> what I want without having to manage anything you mentioned.
> 
> If you need some custom programming, then Latenode allows you to use 
> javascript in their nodes. Pickaxe works with Python, and it can even 
> help you write the code.
> 
> (Pickaxe is an interesting 2-faced thing, part of which is an 
> app-builder and part of which is has some basic logic and it can 
> trigger webhooks to other back-end services, including automation 
> services. They only mention Zapier and Make, but their interface is not 
> specific to either one except in name only. It works fine with 
> Latenode, Pabbly, and others. I think something called Lemonade is 
> somewhat competitive with Pickaxe.)
> 
> I know, folks on this list are going to complain that these services 
> are not free except for trivial purposes to get familiar with them. But 
> I value my time far more and I don’t mind paying a couple hundred bucks 
> a month to have SEVERAL high-quality services managed for me so I don’t 
> have to deal with anything to keep them running. I did that for a while 
> on a Windows VPS (which I had to use b/c the code I needed only targets 
> Windows) and problems were constantly coming up; unfortunately, the VPS 
> host didn’t provide an support.
> 
> I bought a small Windows box to run at home to replace the VPS, but I 
> decided I can do pretty much anything I need on Latenode. So it’s just 
> sitting there.
> 
> I learned how to admin Unix boxes back in the 80’s, and it has always 
> been one of my least favorite things to do. I’m very happy to pay 
> people the cost of one restaurant dinner per month to keep my services 
> working. But my goal is to use these services to make money, at which 
> point the costs are going to be minscule compared to the potential 
> revenues.
> 
> If it’s not a hobby, then you need to decide if you want to work ON 
> your business or IN your business. Running your own server means it’s 
> all on you. Outsourcing it lets you work ON your business.
> 
> TBH, I’m getting away from programming and all of this admin crap. It’s 
> about frigging time we’re seeing things start to bury this stuff behind 
> walls that are being run by AI services. Dealing with AI prompts and 
> automation tools is the future, IMHO. Working with stuff that’s still 
> clearly recognizable today from what it looked like in the 80’s is 
> hardly “progress”. I’ve had people ask me over time, “Why don’t you get 
> certified to work on Cisco hardware?” I used to write code for devices 
> like that back in the 80’s, and it looks like it HAS NOT CHANGED AT 
> ALL, just like talking to modems and Epson printer escape codes.
> 
> This is 2025; I’ve been there, done that, and AI is the future. Prompts 
> are actually structured a lot like imperative programming code but they 
> use normal language to explain things. Unfortunately, if you don’t know 
> the basics of imperative programming, you’re going to miss a lot of 
> details and mess up the structure. And if you aren’t an SME in the 
> domain you’re trying to get AI to do for you, you’re screwed.
> 
> Just my thoughts.
> 
> -David Schwartz
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 19, 2025, at 6:10 PM, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss 
>> <plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I did some research and it appears there is a lot of demand for 
>> content that covers how to create a web server out of home/home 
>> office/home lab.
>> 
>> I assume this means Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP + Bind9, Postfix, 
>> Dovecot, some form of webmail, Let Encrypt, and possibly other 
>> servers/software.
>> 
>> What does the list think on this subject?
>> 
>> Keith
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