PLUG-discuss Digest, Vol 165, Issue 3

[Stephen Partington]

I had Nvidia/Intel working on a Lattitude 5580 with bumblebee working well.
In the case of my specific AW it is a G-Sync enabled display, so there is
no Mux chip to swap between intel and Nvidia graphics. Native screen and
all physical connectors are connected directly to the nvidia GPU, and the
Intel chip does not do much unless you have thunderbolt working. But it
worked well with Ubuntu so i don't expect much with regards to Arch. Arch
will likely have more behavior issues with Wifi.

On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 11:54 AM Eric Oyen <eric.oyen at icloud.com> wrote:

> Speaking of BSD environments…
>
> Well, Theo DeRaadt still won’t make his OS accessible. In fact, he expects
> someone like me to go through the process of coding the apps, patching and
> finally submitting to the ports system (for lengthly review, etc.). All I
> wanted was to have BrilTTY included as a possible startup option on the
> installation disks for OpenBSD.
>
> Now, there is an accessibility project going over at NetBSD, but I haven’t
> had a lot of time to download and try it out. The forums are still abuzz
> with technical issues and the like and ORCA still would have to be patched
> and ported in order to work on an X Desktop there. So, unless things
> radically change, I am stuck with a few Linux Distros and not much hope for
> a more secure OS anytime soon.
>
> If I had a ride up to the black hat convention in Las Vegas next time Theo
> is there, I might meet with him in open forum and have him explain before a
> very public audience why it is that many blind users like me are left out
> of the picture on his OS. Perhaps it might spur him into action and to
> doing the right thing. Or, it might cause him to dig in and never do
> anything (I hope for the former, but expect the latter, if you know what I
> mean). We blind users expect to be able to use technology and there really
> is no longer any excuse not to make Operating systems accessible..
>
> Anyway, that’s my take on the BSD world. And yes, like you, I don’t want
> to have to face breakages, moved items or removed items that I found
> useful. You know how it is with engineers, they just love to change things!
>
> -Eric
> From the central offices of the Technomage Guild, Technology for all Dept.
>
>
> On Mar 5, 2019, at 12:39 AM, Thomas Scott <mr.thomas.scott at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I've moved towards arch and even BSD in personal use over the past few
> years away from ubuntu. I don't want massive changes, I want solid, slow
> changes. Funny how when I first got into Linux a decade ago, I loved the
> "cutting edge", now when I see something new, I'm more likely to yell at my
> computer "You moved that WHERE?!".
>
> In the day (night) job, it's RH. As MB noted, when it comes to the
> enterprise, it's still supreme. Especially with Openstack gaining as much
> ground as it has, Canonical lags far behind RH and even Mirantis in
> support. Kind of sad to see my old favorite dwindle so much.
>
> On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 12:00 AM Eric Oyen <eric.oyen at icloud.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, from an accessibility standpoint, Ubbuntu is one of the better
>> distros around. ORCA screen reader, BrlTTY, speak, emacsspeak and several
>> others are available and even the initial setup is accessible. I haven’t
>> tried this on arch yet and until I research it, I can’t give a qualified
>> opinion on arch.
>>
>> -Eric
>> From the Central Offices of the Technomage Guild, Dept of Research and
>> Development.
>>
>>
>> On Mar 4, 2019, at 4:25 PM, Michael Butash <michael at butash.net> wrote:
>>
>> It's little things like that that make the distro to be honest.  Don't
>> piss me off, don't die catastrophically randomly, don't upgrade and leave
>> me at some nebulous boot prompt.  Ubuntu did that to me too many times,
>> Arch has been downright gentile by comparison, particularly for as complex
>> a setup as I have here.
>>
>> I'm fairly particular about breaking down os partitions, /, /boot, /var,
>> /var/log, /usr, /home, and anything else plugged in.  I would always use
>> 200mb for my /boot, then some point kernels got huge and couldn't store
>> more than 3 on that.  Leaving auto-upgrade on ubuntu for 6 months at a time
>> would fill the boot drive and start failed upgrades annoyingly, so
>> something like that in Fedora is appreciated.  I've not trusted ubuntu
>> auto-upgrades, or ubuntu much at all since.
>>
>> Now I just throw /boot a gig, and typically about the same for EFI from
>> secureboot nonsense, so it works out.  Arch doesn't normally keep multiple
>> kernels around, so not an issue here.
>>
>> I still have never liked RH-derivatives however, and still grimace using
>> them after 20 years.  I did however install cent7 not long ago on my
>> network test rigs as the only distro that supported my 100gb nic drivers,
>> and it didn't seem terrible to use these days.  Might try it sometime, but
>> so far Arch hasn't given me reason to ever leave it.
>>
>> -mb
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 3:39 PM Harold Hartley <wheelie207 at ownmail.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It’s good to get useful info on arch and I agree about Ubuntu as I also
>>> had problems with it.
>>> I now run fedora and have no problems with at all. I find updates pretty
>>> much everyday with bug fixes and new files being installed. I even like how
>>> it installs the new kernel and removes the older kernel that’s 3 versions
>>> back.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019, at 14:47, Michael Butash wrote:
>>>
>>> Arch is mostly precompiled binaries if using standard pacman repos,
>>> their standard package manager.
>>>
>>> Installing other package managers like yaourt introduce community repos,
>>> ala deb/ubuntu ppa repos, which may or may not just compile something on
>>> the fly for you if no binary package available. I don't think I've ever NOT
>>> found something I needed in pacman or yaourt repos under arch that I've had
>>> to compile manually, and both binary or compiling on the fly via yaourt
>>> have worked almost flawlessly.
>>>
>>> I've run Arch on my desktop for at least 2 years now, and it's been the
>>> best change I've made in a long while. Rolling upgrades are great, I've not
>>> encountered one failed upgrade with arch, vs. like every fscking time
>>> upgrading any ubuntu system that fails horribly, almost reliably, every
>>> time. I've run into a few upgrade issues, usually with a conflicting 3rd
>>> party package that has been replaced, but otherwise has worked flawlessly.
>>>
>>> That said, I can't make it work on my laptop to save my life, but I
>>> think it's more a matter of current kernel, grub, systemd, and various bits
>>> not playing nicely with my luks+lvm setup. If not requiring things like
>>> encryption and logical volumes, it's probably pretty easy to walk-through,
>>> but only for an advanced (or sadist newbie) user.
>>>
>>> Arch has been great once booting and working, I have half a dozen
>>> different DE's installed on here, and basically rotate between what one is
>>> less broken each upgrade,. A fault, not of Arch's so much the individual
>>> DE's that can't figure out high-resolution compositing, rotating between
>>> sucking or not. I've been using Mate for a distinct lack of compositing,
>>> which proves most stable. I just don't like the menu and a lack of
>>> type-to-search feature in it...
>>>
>>> I've tried switching off my laptop Ubuntu install as with 18.04 upgrade,
>>> it locked me into Wayland, which simply does NOT work with any other DE on
>>> it. I can't launch into KDE, Cinnamon, Mate, or anything else on it, they
>>> just fail at login - only Gnome3 (Ubuntu Bastard-Edition) works, with many,
>>> many problems that about make it infuriating to use. I've not hated a DE so
>>> much in a long time, thanks Ubuntu. but stuck as the only thing working on
>>> my laptop other than windoze my xps15 came with. I'll get frisky and try
>>> Arch again soon.
>>>
>>> Trick is finding a distro you like, your comfortable with, and doesn't
>>> randomly break with every upgrade. Ubuntu is NOT the latter, expect
>>> upgrades to fail you, this coming from someone living Ubuntu since 6.04.
>>> Other distros, ymmv.
>>>
>>> -mb
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 2:02 PM Harold Hartley <wheelie207 at ownmail.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> > __
>>> > I thought arch was just binary. Never knew they started having both.
>>> > If arch is offering a binary system, isn’t that a closed system and
>>> doesn’t that violate open source license. That is my question.
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Mar 4, 2019, at 13:58, Stephen Partington wrote:
>>> >> Arch if i am correct is both. and like Gentoo you can build as you
>>> install with the option of compile from source.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 1:40 PM Harold Hartley <wheelie207 at ownmail.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> >> > __
>>> >> > The first part you said I couldn’t have said any better.
>>> >> > Now isn’t arch a binary system which has their system files and
>>> packages in binary form.
>>> >> > That doesn’t leave much for fixing a problem on the system if it’s
>>> binary files.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Mon, Mar 4, 2019, at 13:27, Stephen Partington wrote:
>>> >> >> Mostly it is just a personal preference. Sometimes it is related
>>> to the window manager. Sometimes it is the package manager. There are a
>>> number of reasons.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I personally am torn between arch and Ubuntu (especially with
>>> their lite install option) I like both for different reasons. I have been
>>> considering moving to arch on my laptop.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019, 12:04 PM Aaron Jones <retro64xyz at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >> >> > To entertain all the people who can't do Arch.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Le Troll Face.jpeg here
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 11:29 AM Stephen Elliott <
>>> tnflyfisher at live.com> wrote:
>>> >> >> >> What is the purpose of all these different distros?
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> > On Mar 3, 2019, at 12:00 PM, <
>>> plug-discuss-request at lists.phxlinux.org> <
>>> plug-discuss-request at lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > Send PLUG-discuss mailing list submissions to
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>>> >> >> >> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
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>>> >> >> >> > than "Re: Contents of PLUG-discuss digest..."
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > Today's Topics:
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > 1. Re: Phoenix Linux (Matthew Crews)
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > Message: 1
>>> >> >> >> > Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2019 15:15:37 +0100 (CET)
>>> >> >> >> > From: Matthew Crews <mailinglists at mattcrews.com>
>>> >> >> >> > To: plug-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>> >> >> >> > Subject: Re: Phoenix Linux
>>> >> >> >> > Message-ID: <
>>> c07a8f64-f2ad-bc77-5bcd-1227c27d2d52 at mattcrews.com>
>>> >> >> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > On 3/1/19 6:18 PM, der.hans wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >> moin moin,
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> I have seen references to this, but for the first time went
>>> and looked.
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> Phoenix Linux - based on lubuntu 16.04.3 LTS
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphoenixlinux.weebly.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C763b23d1df1b4e6336a108d6a00a7265%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636872364060787903&sdata=gbDmb4Xv3bBpMO%2By4qtTA2sPhge2s82e39Mx3Daj%2F0M%3D&reserved=0
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> Has anyone tried it?
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> ciao,
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> der.hans
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > I haven't tried it, but it looks like a hobby respin of
>>> Lubuntu, but
>>> >> >> >> > with none of the support (and lagging behind upstream by a
>>> significant
>>> >> >> >> > margin).
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > Hobby distros, especially hobby respins, are a tough sell for
>>> me because
>>> >> >> >> > of the lack of support. I'd normally prefer to stick to
>>> upstream (in
>>> >> >> >> > this case, Lubuntu).
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > The same person responsible for Phoenix also makes Feren OS,
>>> which is
>>> >> >> >> > based off of Linux Mint (and in the process of rebasing to
>>> Ubuntu LTS).
>>> >> >> >> > Feren is relatively well received and does have a support
>>> structure, and
>>> >> >> >> > looks fairly nice.
>>> >> >> >> >
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>>> >
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > ------------------------------
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > Subject: Digest Footer
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________
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>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > ------------------------------
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > End of PLUG-discuss Digest, Vol 165, Issue 3
>>> >> >> >> > ********************************************
>>> >> >> >>
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>>> >> >
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > Harold Hartley
>>> >> > 17632 N. 5th place
>>> >> > Phoenix, AZ 85022
>>> >> > wheelie207 at ownmail.net
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------
>>> >> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>> >> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> >> > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you
>>> from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
>>> >>
>>> >> Stephen
>>> >>
>>> >> ---------------------------------------------------
>>> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.phxlinux.org
>>> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> >  Harold Hartley
>>> >  17632 N. 5th place
>>> >  Phoenix, AZ 85022
>>> > wheelie207 at ownmail.net
>>> >
>>> > ---------------------------------------------------
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>>> >  To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>   Harold Hartley
>>>   17632 N. 5th place
>>>   Phoenix, AZ 85022
>>>   wheelie207 at ownmail.net
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
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>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>
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-- 
A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.

Stephen
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