Hiring off shore

[Keith Smith]

Eric you use the word entitled.  I do not feel entitled, however I do 
think there is an implied contract between our Gov and the American 
citizen.

Let me explain.

1) Our country gives money to almost every other country in the world.

2) Our men and women die while being the world police.

3) We have some of the best universities in the world and we export our 
knowledge by allowing foreigners to come to our country to study.

4) 17 years ago I learned that the University of Arizona was charging 
foreign students 95% of the cost of their education.  The tax payers 
paid the other 5%.

5) Tax payer money was used to create the Internet.

6) The assembly line was created by Ford, who also paid his workers very 
high wages because he said they should be able to buy cars.

And I'm sure I can list more if I take another 5 minutes.

H1B Visa is a concept that hurts American works and the American 
economy.  A H1B will live like a refugee while sending money back to 
their home country.  H1B displaces American workers.  Look at the 
example I gave about McDonald's firing their accountants and hiring H1B 
workers.  McDonald's says they will save $500,000 a year by doing so.  
This only hurts America.

Think about this.  As an American I spent 4 years on active duty in the 
USMC.  I was part of that global police force I now pay taxes for.

This country has been expanding since WWII.  Tax payers have paid for 
all the infrastructure such as roads, bridges, clean water etc.  These 
expenditures of tax dollars allowed for American businesses to start and 
grow.

Take one example.  GodDaddy.  A company that was started around 2000 
give or take.  Bob Parsons sold a controlling share for $ 2.5 billion 
dollars.  Bob still has some equity in GoDaddy.

I would submit that Godaddy would not exist if it were not for the tax 
payer money and innovation.  The 101 aided Godaddy in hiring workers 
that lived at a greater distance than they would have been willing to 
travel if there had not been an intercity highway.  And of course if 
there were no Internet that was build with tax dollars, GoDayy would  
not exist.

Lets look at something very fundamental to it all.    Ethernet was 
developed at Xerox PARC between 1973 and 1974. It was inspired by 
ALOHAnet....   ALOHAnet, was developed at the University of Hawaii. 
Sounds like tax payer dollars at work.

The Advanced Research Projects Agency Network (ARPANET) was an early 
packet switching network and the first network to implement the protocol 
suite TCP/IP. Both technologies became the technical foundation of the 
Internet.  Tax Payer Dollars.
What about all the innovations that came out of NASA, at tax funded 
organization?

Why was the PC created in the US?  Didn't Bill Gates learn how to 
program at least in part by using the computer system at some college? 
Why wasn't Apple formed in a foreign country?

Alan Dayley I agree with your post.

Some of you say off shore is substandard.  I do not agree.  There are 
very talented people all over the world.

I love it when people use the race card.  The KKK and the skin heads, to 
name a few, are racist.  Not wanting your country to hire off shore is 
not racist.  It is not about race.  It is about doing what is right – 
putting the American worker first.

Oh, and global economy?  That is a lie.  We are not in a global economy 
not when it comes to hiring.  America is 5% of the global population and 
is the driving force for the world economy.  We drive innovation and we 
created a robust economy that drives the worlds economy.  We give away 
our knowledge, we give away our money, and we give our American lives to 
make the world a better place.

So why should we also give away our jobs. WE created all this.  It was 
the American spirit that created all this.  AND tax dollars were used as 
fuel at every level.

Entitled, no, we have an implied contract.  Why penalize the worker who 
pays taxes at a higher rate than a foreign country.  We built this and 
it is ours.  Bring our jobs back!!

If we do not take care of America, there will be NO world economy.



On 2016-11-11 00:13, Michael Butash wrote:
> I think what most companies get is really a classic bait and switch
> tactic with offshoring more often than not with oversold expertise.
> Offer x, provide y, later offer apologies and discounts once you have
> their cash.  Sad for them being taken on a ride, but what else can you
> do but witness the atrocity postmortem in most cases?  This is where
> my experience has told me otherwise sadly.
> 
> I've met really good folks that come over seas too.  I find they often
> exist outside of that as we do, already with experience, relying on
> their talents.  Sometimes I find them to shackled to a company still
> hoping for a H1B to finally move on from indentured servitude an org
> holds them to.  However when you see most of the mega-outsourcers drop
> people by the gross on projects, there are contracts in place to
> provide x number of qualified individuals for y period, and the
> *qualified* bit is sorely lacking in most cases.  Development
> engagements with offshore firms are almost always purely an exercise
> in numbers to make any such sense.
> 
> I'd really love to see some hard example of such off-shoring efforts
> actually, really succeeding outside marketing.  Perhaps it's just
> Arizona still being podunk/naive as it were in the past 15 years or so
> of my personal experience here, but seems org's here are far more ripe
> for taking, which I can't help but take a certain local pride
> perspective direct offense to.  I saw the same as it began in Silicon
> Valley in the late 90's during my time there too, so it's not simply a
> matter of Arizona denizens being naive, but a convincing fraud none
> the less people get taken for rides on.
> 
> I can simply name far more utter failures than any successes in the
> past 20 years witnessed first hand with offshoring efforts to ever
> think them good.
> 
> -mb
> 
> 
> On 11/10/2016 10:35 PM, trent shipley wrote:
>> I worked for a predominantly Indian outsourcing company. I did not 
>> find my co-workers low skilled or under-educated. They had real 
>> experience and were competent. Accusing the professionals who benefit 
>> from offshoring of being incompetent is idle racist nativism. 
>> Furthermore, in a Global economy, American IT workers have no more 
>> right to a job or gig than anyone else. If the foreigners out compete 
>> you, too bad, that's how capitalism works.
>> 
>> I am disabled, and I think the Americans with Disabilities Act is a 
>> dreadful piece of legislation. It trys to require for-profit companies 
>> to hire contrary to their tangible self interest in terms of cost or 
>> profit.
>> 
>> Trent.
> 
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-- 
Keith Smith